SARU hunting S15 solution

2012-05-17 17:00

Johannesburg - The SA Rugby Union (SARU) said on Thursday it had not yet found a solution to the participation of South African franchises in next year's Super Rugby competition.

Representatives of South Africa's five existing Super Rugby franchises (Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions, Sharks and Stormers), the Southern Kings, the SARU presidency and management met in  in Johannesburg in the latest in a series of meetings on the subject.

"A number of options were discussed but there is currently no preferred alternative to recommend to the General Council," said SARU chief executive Jurie Roux.

SARU's executive committee proposed at a special general meeting in January that the top four teams in the South African conference in this year's Super Rugby competition would join the Southern Kings in next year's competition.

It was also proposed that the last-placed team in the South African conference would play a promotion/relegation match against the non-Super Rugby franchise after the 2013 and 2014 season.

"Everyone was agreed that we must secure a solution that does not damage any of the existing franchises," Roux said.

"It is a complex issue with no easy answers and we are determined to leave no stone unturned in finding that answer."

A further meeting of the franchises and SARU, to discuss participation in the Super Rugby competition, will take place on Monday.

Roux said the decision on Super Rugby participation rested with the SARU General Council.

The next scheduled General Council meeting takes place on July 13 in Cape Town.


  • Jack - 2012-05-17 17:09

    Tell me something I didn't already know...

      Koos - 2012-05-18 01:14

      How do you negotiate when you have already pinned the result?

      Dewald - 2012-05-18 07:57

      They already desided the Kings will play, and now they want to negociate. They dont want to hurt any union. So tell me can SARU perform the impossible, by having 6 teams in 5 spots!!!!! SARU IS BRAIN DOOD!

  • Ryno - 2012-05-17 17:19

    Very easy to solve, make the kings have to play currie cup first and when they show they are competitive enough they can they try for super rugby by playing a promo/relegation match against the bottom of the table team! And there, problem solved!

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-17 17:24

      Absolutely, but the politicians won't have it.

      Walter - 2012-05-18 06:58

      I think that this is what the majority would have voted for, Ryno. However, SARU really put their booted foot in it when they gave the undertaking and I'm sure that the "Watson" Kings, as someone cleverly stated, would have no hesitation in taking this matter to the courts. SARU, is clearly between a rock and a hard place and must be regretting their stupidity.

      Dewald - 2012-05-18 07:59

      They cant even win the Vodacom cup and you want them in the Currie Cup, are you from SARU?

      uwe.klopfer - 2012-05-18 08:44

      @Dewald...he didn't say they must be forced into the currie cup...they must play themselves into it by being competitive in the vodacom cup, the 1 st division and actually show they can be a team worth reckoning with.

  • Ian - 2012-05-17 17:31

    The guys running SA Rugby are spineless, unethical muppets. By throwing the Kings (whom I support by the way by virtue of the fact I'm originally from the E Cape), into the Super15, they're almost guaranteeing that they fail. It's such a complete farce...The ONLY WAY, yes, ONLY WAY, is to include the Kings in the Currie Cup Premier Division and make the Currie Cup a 6team competition, ie WP, EP, KZN, TVL, FREE STATE, BULLS...its the only way another team will be able to prepare for the intensity of Super Rugby... I cant believe a bunch of suits have to meet so many times to arrange more pointless meetings...Then after a season of Currie Cup, let the Kings into Super Rugby at the expense of the bottom placed team. Also, you cant tell a team mid season that their participation in the following season's Super competition is in jeopardy...It's a complete and utter mess...most reasonable administrators would've resigned over this abomination...Just shows, our sports administrators cant run a bath, let alone a professional sports body. How are the players meant to win anything when failure starts at the top... Now everyone, leave the Kings alone, they only want a shot at top level's the muppett administrators who haven't got a clue about the best interests of rugby, or the interests of the region.

      Mike - 2012-05-17 17:55

      Ian, I could not have put it better myself.

  • LaBlue - 2012-05-17 17:32

    A simple relogation match will do. They do it in the Currie Cup, The Varsity Cup, why not the Super Rugby? Unless the Kings is too scared to face the Lions?

      rudi.strydom2 - 2012-05-17 17:40

      Their motive is not to get a better team in the competition. It is political thing and Saru does not know how to handle it.

      Koos - 2012-05-18 01:16

      At the start saru used vaseline, now the bottle is empty and it is starting to hurt.

      Rudi - 2012-05-18 09:07

      SuperRugby is all about dividing the country (South Africa in this case) into 5 regions. Then develop rugby in each region. That is why the Rebels have seen the light, because rugby is now played for the first time in the Melbourne area - traditionally it is Aussie Rules being played there. SuperRugby has nothing to do with the country's existing rugby franchises (Currie Cup Unions in the case of South Africa).

  • ljmostert - 2012-05-17 17:41

    Guys, come on!! Is it so difficult to understand! This is a geographical issue! WHY can we in the Eastern Cape NOT SEE Superrugby? Why are you all so selfish! Thousands of people/rugby supporters here are Multichoice subscribers! Big money will bring big players!!!

      rudi.strydom2 - 2012-05-17 17:48

      BS, so is North west , Limpopo , N/Cape and many more

      Japjapjap - 2012-05-17 18:42

      verre Noord-Transvaal, Wes-Transvaal, Oos-Transvaal, Noord-Kaap, Suid-Kaap, Noord-Natal, Suid-Natal, Noord-, Oos-, Suid-, Wes-Vrystaat, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland... imm...??

      Aljo Ludick - 2012-05-17 22:28

      Like the Big money brought Big names to the Cheetahs.... Morning...

      Koos - 2012-05-18 01:19

      Typical mentality. Where is the big money when the Queens can't even make it in the Vodacom Cup? Business wants returns. Who is the BEE company funding this?

      Marius - 2012-05-18 05:52

      @Wandering. I think you got the wrong city there. The All Bllack and Crusader supporters are all at Newlands not in PE. At the test against the All Blacks in PE last year, there was a group of about 30 voiceferous black supporters in the crowd with a huge banner that said "BLACKS LOVE THE SPRINGBOKS".You speak to any black rugby supporter in PE and not only will it be almost sure that he supports the Springboks, but his knowledge of rugby and it's rules far surpasses that of most of the Mitchells Plain and Cape Flats crowd who hangs out ant Newlands and support the All Blacks.

      frans.visserdsb - 2012-05-18 07:30

      the situation is quite difficult. At the time when the undertaking was given, SARU was naively thinking that SANZAR would let SA have a 6th side in the S15. Well, we all know how that worked out. The reality is that the Lions is and have been a struggling franchise for a long time, but it would be unthinkable that the most populous region in SA does not have a super rugby franchise. However, having said that, if we want SA rugby to develop we need black supporters and players at grass roots level. (And I am not talking of the occasional private school product) And this will come from the Eastern Cape where there is a very strong and old tradition of black rugby support. So for the long term future of SA rugby we would have to grow the support in the Eastern Cape. I am also not sure if Cheeky will be happy with the promotion - relegation idea. SARU promised the kings participation in the S15. not a chance of participation... All I can say is I am glad I don't have to untangle this Gordion Knot...

      Wanderering - 2012-05-18 11:08

      Marius why do you bring colour in to the statement read my post I said locals not blacks.

      Ruan - 2012-05-18 14:34

      You are right. Selfish buggers up North!

      Sam - 2012-05-18 18:33

      @ljmostert: I'll tell you why you can't "see" Superrugby... Because you sold your rights to the Sharks. Griekwas did the same with Cheetahs, but we don't hear them crying about it, as did Mpumalanga with the Bulls, and they also don't cry about it. So, dear ljmostert, who is really selfish? You want the money the Sharks paid you so they could host your games (because nobody bothered to attend in PE), and now you want the rugby as well? Sounds like real Watson-ek-kots-op-die-Springbok-logic to me...

      marius.olivier.7 - 2012-05-21 19:30

      @ Wandering. Because you know and I know that no SA white has any reason to or will ever support the All Blacks against the Boks. It is only blacks and coloureds that historically have done so and some are still doing it, so when you mentioned locals it was obvious you were talking about the non-white locals. Don't pretend to be politically correct, by accusing me of making it a colour issue.

  • francisco.j.pedro - 2012-05-17 18:09

    my suggestion is to tie the superugby spots with the top six spots of the currie cup. which used to be ecided amongst eight teams in the country however since the of the season and the extended international season as well means there are now only six teams in the currie cup and ten in first division. sadly the EP kings ony rank fourth as they finished second in the first division finals while two of the current premier division have been relegated.

      Rudi - 2012-05-18 08:44

      The geographical boundaries of the SuperRugby franchises do not coincide with that of the unions playing Currie Cup. For example : Western Province & Boland make up the STORMERS ; similarly the BULLS make-up comes from the Blue Bulls, Northern Bulls, & Pumas ; and the LIONS consist of the Golden Lions, Falcons and Leopards. Similarly the KINGS would come from the EP Kings, SWD Eagles and the Border Bulldogs. You see, SuperRugby is all about dividing the country into 5 big regions ; and then the franchises within those regions have to make up a team. Just imagine how strong the BULLS are now going to become?

  • gerrit.volschenk - 2012-05-17 18:09

    How one can even consider a side that can not even qualify for the final of a competition where players develop - Vodacom Cup - to represent your country in a prestigious competition like the S15 is a disgrace.The so-called development center of rugby, what a joke.All has been's that can not get a contract anywhere else that play for the Kings.

      Rudi - 2012-05-18 08:50

      The same happened to Natal when they were ALLOWED to enter the Curri Cup way back then and look at them today. A few seasons and the Kings would be on par. Go back into the archives of SuperRugby and you will see that EP played in the first year of Super 10 Rugby. What came first - the egg or the chicken? The Kings would need a few years to build a team before they would become on par.

  • francisco.j.pedro - 2012-05-17 18:13

    on the issue of watching matches. estern cape is currently a territory where the sharks are supposed to be the current home team. much like north west is part of the cheetahs area. perhaps fixtures for these teams should be made in other stadiums like the cats used to do????

      Wanderering - 2012-05-17 18:52

      Boet your geography sucks the North west is nowhere near the Freestate, the Leopards form part of the Lions setup.

      shaun.mcneilage - 2012-05-17 19:56

      boet your thinking is great, however the Sharks could not wait to dumb EP and Border when they all formed the then Coastal Sharks, the lions who are battling also do not use the Pumas and the Leopards players....the Sharks excuse was that it was not a home game if they played in PE or EL, why the lions fail to use the other 2 teams in their region is mindless considering they are all in the A section of the currie cup....

      mthunzi.phakathi - 2012-05-18 06:21

      That is all very romantic an all, alas me thinks it would defeat the whole idea of a home game. If the sharks play in PE it would be just as a safari for them as the foreign teams. Home game adv is linked with knowing the conditions better eg, humidity

      Rudi - 2012-05-18 08:57

      You still don't get it. The geography determnes the teams - not the main union within. By the way, Bloembontein & Cape Town are closer to PE than Durban. Therefore your rationale doesn't make sense to make PE rugby part of the Sharks. Following your rationale it should be the Cheetahs (700km away) and then secondly the Stormers (780 km away) and lastly the Sharks (850km away). A team cannot function over such vast distances and therefore SARU decided to propose the KINGS as another franchise. Australia & New Zealand do that to their regions.

  • shaun.mcneilage - 2012-05-17 19:44

    every year the lions are @ the bottom of the super rugby log, they are an embaressment to SA rugby, even the Cheetahs have left them for dead, kick the rubbish lions out and give the Kings a chance, then the Kings will be able to hold onto their players who all ways get poached by the other unions....

      Aljo Ludick - 2012-05-17 22:26

      Please tell us what fantastic players the Kings lost to other Unions? As far as I know it was only Potgieter that went to the Bulls. At this stage the black player development team is flooded by has-beens from the other Unions. Yes the Lions is a disgrace, but the Kings is only politics for certain individuals and scapegoat for sporting politicians with a hidden agenda.

      shaun.mcneilage - 2012-05-18 01:02

      @Aljo, the temptation was just to great to take a swipe @ the Lions supporters, i live in PE and i can tell u that we don`t think it will happen, although it would be great but not with the team we have @ present, unless Cheeky has a ace up his sleeve to play.....and 50 million to spend on a competitive team......anyways you do have Mr Killian from EP in the Lions team.....

      Marius - 2012-05-18 05:59

      @Aljo. And Bandise Maku at the Lions too. TheBulls have both Potgieters, Bjorn Basson, JJ Engelbrecht , Lionel Cronje and Akona Ndugane. The Sharks have Kanko, Steven Sykes, Keegan Daniel, Mvovo, Eugene van Staden and Akona Ndugane

      Wanderering - 2012-05-18 11:05

      Yes Marius Dingaan, Piet Pompies and 5 000 000 other people are plying their trade all over the world. This is a proffesional sport, so the guys go to where they are happy and get paid. You are really getting boring with the old story "they were born in the EC", do you honestly think that if the Kings become a reality that every player that was born in the EC will be standing in line to go play there? Boet you have this warped sence of how nice the EC really is. On your next vacation try to have a holiday outside the EC borders.

      Ruan - 2012-05-18 14:44

      Yes. And if they get paid at the Kings more might stay. Kings cant build a good team if the dont get to play super rugby up front. Once they had their chance, then let promotion relegation be the order of the day. The other teams are far to far ahead for the Kings to catch up. They do need help, and it is political help they are getting. The only way, because the other unions are to selfish to give us people some games as well. Go government. Cut those fat cats down a bit.

  • thefantasyrugbyscout - 2012-05-17 19:58

    Bring in the Kings so the Lions can take a year out to recover from all their injuries. Then after the Kings get hammered in every game there will be no choice but to get rid of them and normality will resume.

      Mark - 2012-05-18 05:15


  • shaun.mcneilage - 2012-05-17 20:04

    seriously though, SARU must include the Kings in the A-Section of the currie cup for the next 3 years as preparation for super rugby and then get them put into the Super 15 which will be expanded to the Super 17 in 2016 as New Zealand are also looking @ adding an extra team, we all know Australia can`t add an extra team...

  • Theuns Jacobs - 2012-05-17 21:06

    cheeky watson is 2 blame for this debacle. he knows they'll get sponsors (gumede en kie) which meant he can pay his son and himself more, which is his only interest. sa rugby will be the losers, cause all lions players will go over seas. also, they think they can buy a few players, if got news for you idiots. it doesn't work, ask the lions.

      Koos - 2012-05-18 01:22

      Gumede was going to score handsomely with the e-tolls.

  • michael.campbell.77312 - 2012-05-17 21:29

    I say the current 5 franchises should break away and their sposors and tv backers would follow giving them the power to negotiate with nz and aus thus by-passing these idiots that are harming SA rugby

      Koos - 2012-05-18 01:24

      I have said the same thing a long time ago. Like the French or English clubs. Then if SARU wants players to play for the Springboks they should be contracted to SARU and not the club.

      Rudi - 2012-05-18 08:25

      SANZAR is the body you are referring to with whom negotiations must be made. SANZAR recognises SARU and no other "breakaway group of five franchises". Do you honestly think the BULLS, SHARKS, STORMERS & CHEETAHS are going to jeopardise their relationship with SARU & SANZAR on behalf of a losing team? No, I guess not. SANZAR has appointed SARU to NOMINATE the teams from the Soutth African conference to play in the SuperRugby series. It is not up to the franchises themselves to do that.

  • Ken - 2012-05-17 21:38

    It's bonus time at SARU, and if, as a member of SARU you're supporting the non excisting Southern Kings you are guaranteed a fat lifestyle improvement!.... Investigate these guys please, the whole thing smells of corruption! Lions Forever!!

  • shaun.mcneilage - 2012-05-18 01:09

    remember Brian van Rooyen, the SARU president that wanted to bring in the Spears.....that is where this all was his ploy for re-election, remember the then Spears coach...Pieter de Villiers.......

  • hans.schouwstra.7 - 2012-05-18 06:49

    What a lot of rubbish, they had this problem since they gave a free ticket to the Kings, there is no other solution then to throw out the last placed SA team in our case the Lions, the only escape could be the relegation option but then no free ticket for the Kings, eish SARU can make it difficult for themselves, just because things are not being thought thru before hand.

  • Frankie - 2012-05-18 07:20

    Dt maak gladi saak as ons King al hulle games verloor ni! Mense van die Oos Kaap is lus vir rugby en wil ok al die ander spanne hier sien! Julle mense moet verstaan dt is n vooreg en nie n reg ni!

      Quinton - 2012-05-18 07:59

      Dis reg!!! Jy is so slim. Jy moet die voorreg verdien om in 'n GROOT kompetisie te speel. Verdien die Kings daardie voorreg? Komaan....wees eerlik met jouself.

      Jahendel - 2012-05-18 09:52

      @Quinton en die Welpies?

      Rey - 2012-05-18 11:57

      @Jahendel Die 'Welpies' het die voorreg verdien deur in die Curriebeker en ander kompetisies te presteer.

      Ruan - 2012-05-18 14:52

      En so het die Bulle ook nie dit verdien nie. En Cheetahs ook nie. Ek nou Leeus ook nie. So kom, wees JY eerlik met JOU self. Ek dink julle sug net meer oor die feit dat julle nie meer AL die rugby gaan kry nie. Daar is duisende mense wat dit so sal waardeer om nie meer 100'de kilometers te ry en verblyf betaal sodat hulle ook 'n groot game te kan sien nie. En nou praat ek van Stormers, Bulle, Cheetah, ens ondersteuners.

  • David - 2012-05-18 08:32

    Uh very ease,wait until 2015 when the compition is expanded,inly three years and the kings can then try to get to super rugby level if that is possible.

  • matt.prinsloo.1 - 2012-05-18 10:44

    Promosie / relegasie - op watter basis gaan die Kings spelers kontrakteer? Super Rugby is die geelwortel wat almal lok. n "Miskien" is nie goed genoeg nie. In elk geval, meeste van die Kings se aanwinste sal eers volgende jaar by hulle aansluit - hoe gaan so n wedstryd moontlik wees? Almal behoort te weet die EP Kings wat Vodacom Cup gespeel het, is nie di Southern Kings wat volgende jaar gaan speel nie. Kings vir 3 jaar in Currie beker en dan Super Rugby - nie slegte idee nie. Maar die Kings gaan steeds nie die beste spelers kan kontrakteer in daai 3 jaar nie, want weereens - geen Super Rugby nie. Die Pumas, Griekwas en Leopards het almal n redelike tydjie Currie beker gespeel en hulle was deel van Super Rugby franchises en het baat gevind daarby - tog kan hulle steeds nie 100% kompeteer met die Big 5 nie. My opinie, die kleiner unies moet harder veg vir hulle deel van Super Rugby voordele. Lions speel week in, week uit voor n half leeg Ellis Park. Hoekom nooit in Rustenburg of Nelspuit nie? Dis tog deel van hulle franchise gebied. Die huidige gesloer pas net die Sharks, Stormers en Bulls. Cheetahs, Kings en Lions sit en wag en gaan dit moeilik vind om top spelers te lok alvorens duidelikheid gekry is. Kings se eerste seisoen in Super Rugby gaan moeilik genoeg wees, sonder hierdie onnodige gesloer.

  • Charles - 2012-05-18 13:08

    EP (Eastern Province) rugby was always in the top five to six of SA rugby. That was until politics and Cheeky Watson totally destroyed rugby in this region. Now they are asking for a special (political) dispensation that will allow them to play Super Rugby. Let them stew in Cheeky Watson and all his political cronies own juice.

      matt.prinsloo.1 - 2012-05-18 14:59

      Charles, you dont have your fact straight. EP Rugby was always in the Top 5 or 6. That part is true. To blame the Watsons for what went wrong at EP... not good. Watson came along in about 2009... read the rest for yourself EPRU gets unqualified audit – first in 7 years 2010/05/04 Sbongile Dimbaza THE Eastern Province Rugby Union has received an unqualified audit report – the first in seven years. EPRU president Cheeky Watson said this augured well for plans to ensure the union became attractive to sponsors. “It’s down to good teamwork that we have achieved this. The union’s books have been in the red for a long time and our management strategy has paid off.” He said turning things around in rugby was never an easy business, but what had been achieved was a reflection of pure determination on the part of the management. Watson said this new development would give comfort to potential sponsors of the EPRU. Part of the union’s plan is to hire an experienced coach, but Watson said talks were still at a sensitive stage. New players are being sought to inject new blood into the team. “We need to ensure we build on this achievement, because it’s going to have an impact on clubs and sub-unions.” Are you sure Watson is the one to blame? Seems more to me that he is the one who fixed what was wrong.

  • Ruan - 2012-05-18 14:55

    Gee ons Stormers, Bulls, Cheetahs, ens supporters ook games hier onder. Dis nie julle reg om al die games daar bo te kry nie. Die goverment moet julle 'fat cats' daar bo biekie aarde toe bring. Al daai unies wou die Kings nie help deur die jare nie, nou het hulle 'n nuwe maatjie gekry wat grooter as julle is.

  • stander.mario - 2012-05-18 18:15

    Kings will give all the teams 5 points on the house, yea bring them in next year! Luckily South African teams play them twice!!!!!

  • Craven - 2012-05-18 23:48

    My dad says it's about time the Eastern Cape got super rugby, he says they will mismanage it into the ground no matter how much cash they get. My mom said she does not care. My mom always says bad things about Spies but whenever you magazine has a picture of him she always has the magazine open on that page. My dad said that Kitzhoff is only good because he is angry at what stares back at him from the mirror every day. I want to go spend the weekend of the 2nd of June at my cousins house.

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