Cheeky: Money can't buy Kings

2012-06-27 07:48

Cape Town - EP Kings president Cheeky Watson has poured cold water on rumours the Eastern Cape team has come to an agreement with the South African Rugby Union (SARU) not to play Super Rugby next year.

According to Die Burger, rumours are the Southern Kings will take a back seat for the Lions for one more year - if SARU adheres to some of their requests.

Some of the requests apparently include that the Kings will "receive a huge sum of money from SARU" to do so. They are apparently also seeking automatic qualification into next year's Currie Cup Premier Division as well as a guaranteed Test match against either New Zealand or Australia for the next four years.

However, Watson strongly denied the rumours.

"The rumours are false. There is definitely no such agreement with SARU.

"I think they are rumours that were started by people who want to sink the Kings.

"We should have played Super Rugby in 2011 already, but stood back with the best interests of South African rugby in mind. A decision has been made that we will play Super Rugby in 2013 and that is what we're striving for," said Watson.


  • tc.convulvulous - 2012-06-27 08:01

    I hope the Watsons realise that they themselves are part of the Kings' problems. The day I hear they are out of EP Rugby, that day I will consider to support the Kings.

      bloudaan.blou - 2012-06-27 08:06

      @tc.convulvulous I agree with you 100%.

      rory.audie - 2012-06-27 08:08

      Well said. I would love nothing more than to support my province, but until the huge political battles and Watsons make headlines, what the hell is the point? That okey just has that "I'm a doo$ and the main man" face that makes you want to smash it in for him.

      dieter.muller.942145 - 2012-06-27 08:22

      rory that "d**s" brought us 2 tests in 2 years (NZ & England), he brought us the 7's and now Super Rugby! not bad hey? the previous "quota" presidents stole all the money and couldn't even get Percy to host a golf day in PE!

      Shnez - 2012-06-27 08:24

      They want to guarantee their position to humiliated all the time!!!!!!

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:28

      @ TC - Cheeky has been doing amazing things for EP Rugby Luke is the best player EP has, the players respect and support him. Dont understand why you would want them to leave? @ Shnew, Natal were given a chance to succeed, why not give the EC a chance to prove themselves, they havent even put a side together get and here you are predicting the future, what else does your crystal ball have to say?

      werner.coetzer.311 - 2012-06-27 08:28

      can't wait to be rid of that WHOLE puking family forever. Kings, how about this, win the 1st div, then place at least 5 th in the Currie cup and THEN you can go and play with the big boys? Useless franchise even struggles against Boland (btw much respect to Boland)

      rory.audie - 2012-06-27 08:31

      Dieter, That oke brought us the Super 15...? He gave it to the Kings, undeservedly, just like the rest of the country works. Just GIVE! Never earned. GIVE! If the EP Kings could show that they can compete at Currie Cup Level, then fine and well, you've EARNED the right to be there. This whole circus is just indicative of how its always GIVE, GIVE GIVE and never work hard and EARN your right to be there. And that D00$ is to thank for that mentality. Shame on him!

      werner.coetzer.311 - 2012-06-27 09:04

      ....then again, it may be a good thing... automatic superbru prediction every week, team playing against Kings to win by 50. Will be surprised if they can even manage to get 4 points for their byes

      werner.coetzer.311 - 2012-06-27 09:04

      ....then again, it may be a good thing... automatic superbru prediction every week, team playing against Kings to win by 50. Will be surprised if they can even manage to get 4 points for their byes

      Dakey - 2012-06-27 09:05

      I don't think you understand the state that EP Rugby was in. As much as I do not like the Watsons (particularly for their repeated xenophobic rants against Afrikaners), EP rugby is certain light years better than it was under black administration. Goodness, players weren't even paid back a few years back! Until Ellis Park can be filled with more than 1,500 supporters each week or win more than four matches out of 14, its time to move on.

      jono.qmann - 2012-06-27 09:14

      u guys are so againts the EP Kings but yet no one has mentioned once how terrible the Lions are and there support??? so u suggest that the Lions must stay on for how many more years? and every year they continue with the super rugby the more they continue to loose money and play the bankrupt game!!!

      fanie.smit.5 - 2012-06-27 10:19

      The Watsons are politically tied to the rugby. Did anyone notice that when his son left WP how their attitude and rugby improved by ten fold. They are a bad influence to rugby and I agree that something is not right. These are not honourable men.

      selma.botha.9 - 2012-06-27 10:52

      What hold does Mr Watson have on SARU that he can make such demands? A cupboard full of videos? Oh for the good old days of EP Rugby when they were a factor in the Currie Cup tournament with the likes of Frans Erasmus, Giepie van Zyle, Anton Jacobs, Gary Loest, Danie Derber, Dave Callaghan, Tinio Kankowski, China Bell, The Human brothers, Sieg, Pote, Jan Serfontein, Hannes Strydom, Armand du Preez, Adri Geldenhys, Elandre van den Berg, Gerrit Meyer, Andrew Paterson, Willie Meyer, Michael du Plessis, Jacques du Plessis, and Gavin Cowley.

      Shnez - 2012-06-27 11:19

      @patrick! Dont have a crystal ball, its common fact!!!! They've been given numerous opportunities to prove themselves dumass! they cant get anywhere! OH and PS: they have a team! its called the EP KINGS! Now they dont wanna do it the right way by winning competitions, just expect to be there!

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 11:26

      @ Shnez - you alright there? Have Natal even been given a chance? How did they qualify for the A section in the Currie Cup in the 80's? EP Kings are 1/3 of the Southern Kings The Southern Kings have played as a team once against the British Lions in 2009 DUMASS

      Shnez - 2012-06-27 12:46

      @Patrick: are you listen to what you have just said!? hahahahahahahaha...... EP kings Southern Kings, Cheeky kings all the same....I get it, you patriotic to the kings! cool. Dosent mean they must just get in and kick teams out! win some domestic stuff first! like the rest of the sane rugby nation suggests,and man, maybe they'll get somewhere. i think that's fair hard feelings.

      adrien.mcguire - 2012-06-27 15:58

      One shouldn't just be given a place in the Super 15, you need to EARN it. The Watsons have learnt too much from the ANC !!

      thomas.cannon.712 - 2012-06-27 20:31

      tc. Shnez, Adrien!! Well said! Who the hell is going to pay for something they haven't got,A TEAM!!! Rumours or not it sounds typical of the New SA, put us in the Currie Cup, S15 but don't ask us to work for it!!!

      hugh.olphart - 2012-06-29 11:37

      The EC stadiums are full, when the Boks; blitz or otherwise play. Guaranteed no one will go to watch a game where the Kings get beaten 80-zip, every game. Lions may have lost most of their games, but usually by small margins, and watch what happens to top teams that take them for granted. SR warm-up game Lions Kings, what was it now?? 88-0? AS for the Sharks (Natal under Craig Jamison) being given a chance in 1990, they topped the B-league and qualified to play in the Premier Currie Cup, beating Oom Naas' mighty Bulls in the final. This they repeated some five times? through the next decade. Thing is they got there by playing good rugby, not by having connections with the National party. We all would love the EP to be back to their glory days, but until they are a viable competitive side, they shouldn't be making life difficult for the rest of the country's rugby lovers. As For Watsisname claiming all stories are lies? Well the only time you know when Watshisname is lying is when his mouth is open. Much like the rest of his comrades in government.

  • dieter.muller.942145 - 2012-06-27 08:05

    EP KIngs on the RISE!!!!

      duncan.biyela - 2012-06-27 08:15

      and then the fall! what comes up, must come down.....

      Leon Coe - 2012-06-27 08:20

      And FALL

      Kevin - 2012-06-27 08:33

      And FAIL

      newbornr - 2012-06-27 08:34

      Dieter, your comment above proves exactly the point. The 2 tests , 7s, Super rugby etc were BROUGHT to the Eastern Cape. The province has not earned them.At some point in time the province will have to earn them to keep them and that is where the wheels fall off entirely. Your "Handout" model is not sustainable - finish and klaar

      dieter.muller.942145 - 2012-06-27 08:51

      newbornr not earned it? how do you earn a test or the 7's? by people pitching up @ the game .... the Boks vs England test in Durban only had 33 000 spectators ... the test in PE (which was a dead rubber and it was terrible weather) had 48 000 spectators ...

      erich.goosen - 2012-06-27 09:04

      Not with the Watsons at the helm.

      Shona - 2012-06-27 10:51

      FYI...There were apparently 43052 spectators at Durban test and just over 46000 in PE and weather was worse in Durban than PE test too...this is according to Super Sport during the PE game and also on ESPN.

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-27 16:35

      shona - 46000 is a capacity crowd. cant get more in there that why only 46000. and the weather was pretty sht here in PE. even with crap weather durban is warm, we where freezing our frekin rocks off.

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-27 16:48

      sorry my mistake - not capacity crowd. Nelson mandela bay stadium capacity 48459 (46000 = 94.92%) Kings Park (ABSA Stadium) capacity 55000 (43000 = 78.18%) That gives a 16.74 % higher capacity attendance in PE. DBN population = 2117650 (almost 3 times more than PE) so why only 78% attendance?? PE population = 749921 apparently eastern cape is the poorest province aswell and the weather in PE was really crap!!! (a lot of main roads where flooded that night) I also know off flight being delayed due to the weather and people missing the game because of that. keeping that all in mind it was an excellent attendance at the game.

      duncan.biyela - 2012-06-28 09:01

      @brandewijn, It really was crappy weather in Durbz that whole week, and you are mistaken when its crap weather in winter here its cold and in any event, PE is so boring that when you guys do get a big event, every man and his dog wants to be there! We may have more people in Durbz but not everyone is into rugby.

  • charlesdumbwin.dumbwin - 2012-06-27 08:06

    Bring on the EP Super Kings in 2013 !!! We might use Brandy & Coke park for a few games for our fans in JHB.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:54

      It's the Southern Kings Charles, you keep supporting them but each time you call them something else ;-)

      david.w.bakker - 2012-06-27 10:22

      Bye Bye Super Queens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:28

      Charles, maybe SARU put the Kings in, then give the Internationals to the Lions to help them financially? PE may see only minnow Tests for the next three years? I'm really keen to see how they intend to place the Kings in Super Rugby, but not at the expense of a current franchise - as reported to the Sports Committee! That will be a very big rabbit and a very small hat :)

      terry.burne - 2012-06-27 14:46

      I suspect that the ANC and their cronies will pump big money into the Kings, so that they can go shopping and buy some top players from other provinces in order to be relaltively competitive. Expect them to start raiding all of the other provinces with offers to star players that the other provinces can't match.

      mark.polley.336 - 2012-06-27 15:57

      @CD Sorry no EPSK fans living north of the Snoek & Wyn curtain......

  • phillip.beukes.5 - 2012-06-27 08:08

    This is turing into a circus... time some-one stood up and take controll of the situation. Expansion of Super Rugby, can only happen once this contract expires... best is to leave the status quo as is until then. Then they could maybe get some teams from Fiji, Samoa and possibly Tonga and Japan involved. It could start off with a second tier compitition, where they have the possibility to move into the Top Tier, when they are ready. As it stands now, there are a few Super15 teams that really dont belong in the compitition.

  • anneck.cranke - 2012-06-27 08:09

    Why would we wish to sink the Kings when you have fourteen other teams waiting to pummel you into the dirt, and make an absolute embarrassment out of you and South African rugby as a whole???? It's politics in sport that stands to lose!

      Shona - 2012-06-27 10:56

      People in politics don't like to see rugby being successful they want to see us fail like the soccer

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 08:16

    Let the Kings play the Lions in a 3 match tournament, the one that ends on top plays in the S15, simple is it not?

      dieter.muller.942145 - 2012-06-27 08:23

      martin, the Lions must first get a coach and then some money to pay their Telkom bill ...

      charlesdumbwin.dumbwin - 2012-06-27 08:25

      Too late, Kings are in, Lions out. We might take a few of the straggling Lions players though, we'll see if we have space for them on our bench.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:31

      Playoffs may be an option but only at the end of 2013 at the earliest Cant have 2 teams in play offs when one has been receiving Millions of rands for the past 5 years to build a squad and the other has only just started recruiting for 2013

      Dakey - 2012-06-27 09:08

      Let's see which stadium will be packed with fans (or know the first 30 seconds of the national anthem better), Nelson Mandela Bay, or Coke Cola. Give the Kings 10 years to do nothing in Super Rugby, then you can give it back to the Lions.

      will.bains.50 - 2012-06-27 09:39

      Martin my vriend, lees my kommentaar. Ek dink jy moet 1ste in die lyn staan

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-06-27 09:50

      This could be a huge money making derby, which will draw a lot of interest. The fact remains that there are other teams that are better the S.Kings that should be given the chance first, unfortunately they do not have a city close by, however could they not be moved to take up such a franchise. The Lions are not delivering, (not withstanding the fact that there will always be a team at the bottom of any log), in America, sports franchises who don't make the bottom line financially get replaced with a new team, or the franchise is bought out and the new owners repackage the whole team, replacing management, team players from top to bottom. SARU should worry more about the fiscal result for long term growth, and maybe one large franchise in the North is better than two. With a franchise in the Eastern Cape, the game of Rugby can be taken to a very poor area, it would be interesting to see which players will come through the ranks there. I am not a fan of the Watson's, (they can't be around forever) as I can just never forget Luke's face sulk (Caught on Camera) when he was not passed the ball as his Springbok team member crossed the line to score for the Springboks. It basically summed up the Watson's as a whole. While the team and the Nation cheered, Luke through a sulking tantrum and I wonder if this wasn't, a father like son moment. Cheeky claims to have South African rugby interest at heart but he is known for throwing his toys out the cot on occasions. Juvenile actions.

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:33

      Patrick, somewhere there was an article that said the Kings won't be in a promotion/relegation match until 2015! The second lowest placed SA side will play the Lions, if there is a promotion game. My worry is that come 2015 SANZAR won't allocate the 16th position to SA as two of our sides are constantly in the last three on the log. This really could be the end of the Lions franchise. This will impact on the many Jo'burg schools who contribute players to provincial and national pools. The only good side - Ellis Park will have to be sold, and we can watch the Lions play Vodacom Cup games in Soweto.

      Shona - 2012-06-27 11:05

      @dieter...Lions do have a coach - Johan Ackermann. Lions have been struggling as a team cos of club politics and problems with Mitchell so now that they have a new coach maybe they can pull themselves together

      david.w.bakker - 2012-06-27 12:04

      @Charles Dumber & Dumber. Lions are not out. Wait till the end of July then we will talk. The southern queens cannot make it into the Currie Cup. Mark my words NO Super Rugby for the queens

  • will.bains.50 - 2012-06-27 08:19

    Not even halve an hour ago and 11 negative comments already? I bet all of it from loosing lionr supporters.

      bloudaan.blou - 2012-06-27 08:23

      @will.bains.50 No..!!! Its from people who know more about the Watsons than you do…!!!

      harold.lloyd.520 - 2012-06-27 08:31

      Daan, it's people who know more than Will does.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:32

      @ Bloudaan, what do you know about the Watson that us people in the EC dont? If you had not realised it by now the majority of the EC rugby supporters are behind them 100%

      bloudaan.blou - 2012-06-27 08:44

      @Patrick Cawood Where have you been the last few years that you don’t know about the Watsons and there way of doing business?

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:50

      @ Bloudaan, what other than good has Cheeky done? If you could of seen the state of EP rugby before he arrived...EP were 2nd last in the 2nd division The players were sleeping in the EP Rugby offices at the Boet Erasmus stadium There was no money to pay the players Luke said some bad things but has since apoligised and moved on, he has since captained Bath and returned to EP rugby and has massive support in the area. Where do you live by the way? Have you ever been to PE?

      lionel.kemm.9 - 2012-06-27 09:01

      @Patrick,I was very fortunate to be able to attend the Bok match in PE on Saturday and its one of the best I have been to local and overseas.I am not saying I agree with Cheeky and Co. but all I am saying is that PE is ready.

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-27 11:02

      agree with patrick - so far cheeky has only done good things for EP rugby since taking over. Personaly I think he is a bit of a D**s, but I can not argue the fact that he has taken EP rugby from being a complete mess to a well organised professionaly run business/team. Have spokento Luke and think he is a down to earth guy. Marrying and having kids have done him a world of good - his prioroties have changed and he has realised politics is not where he wants to be involved in - He just wants to play rugby for EP. He has admitted making mistakes (publicly appologising), so Luke is OK in my book. Stop bashing the Watsons (as Cheeky is doing his job as manager of the franchise and luke doen't want to get involved), rather focus on the real problem which is the bad way SARU has handled the situation. Leave us PE folk alone and start taking on SARU as they should have handled the whole thing better since it started in 2002 (way before cheeky got involved).

      martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 14:46

      Will, i'm actually a Sharks supporter, this is more to do with the SA image than anything else, how on earth can we go from bad to worse! Scrap my last question, it is possible, from NP to ANC!!!!!

  • Jed - 2012-06-27 08:21

    Congratulations, Kings your the most undeserving side to achieve a Super Rugby status hope you ladies a proud.

      Dakey - 2012-06-27 09:13

      If the Kings has 1/3 the payroll of the Lions. Let's see they could have kept: Jacques Potgieter, Keegan Daniel, Ryan Kankowski ... Sorry bud, provinces with higher payrolls have mercilessly been taking players from the Eastern Cape for decades with SARU doing little to prevent this. Incredible how you fight for a team that have repeatedly under delivered. I don't even know any Lions fans any more, or for that matter any guys from JHB that don't support the Bulls.

      Jed - 2012-06-27 10:00

      Let's take a look shall we. Eastern Province has been around for years, they played in Super rugby in 1994. Due to piss poor performances from 1992-1999 they where relegated to the first division. During the same time the Lions won the Currie Cup twice. So because of a bad run of performances E.C rugby dropped to the first division, obviously with that came dwindling crowd attendances, no more financial backing. The Lions have avoided relegation from the Currie Cup and have profited because of that. So what you want is finance given to the Eastern Province rugby union to get them back up to where they once where. Why should SARU give the eastern cape financial backing when they have done nothing to deserve it, Eastern Cape rugby killed itself, why should SARU pay up, why should the Lions lose Super rugby status? They won the Currie Cup, and probably got a nice pay out for it. Why should we support the E.P Kings when they have done nothing to prove themselves worthy of a Super rugby place?

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:39

      @Dakeyras Welcome to reality. Money doesn't keep players loyal. If it did then Habana and Jacque Fourie and many others would be playing for the Lions and we wouldn't be bottom of the log! Ironically the squad being put forward by the Kings has many players in it who are not from the Eastern Cape! So even you buy players. Let's see how many local EC lads make the side in the 2013 season!!!

      david.w.bakker - 2012-06-27 12:10

      That is the most intelligent and honest comment said without emotion, well done vallemj

  • timothy.martin.9655 - 2012-06-27 08:24

    They can not even compete in the Vodacom cup. The Kings want to take over from the Lions who have been a franchise for over 100 years. Cheeky and his piece of sh******* son must piss off and not interfere with SA rugby, they are an embaresment to the country. The Kings will loose by 50 points every game.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:39

      you sound a little sour this morning Timothy...cant blame you, useless team you support, bankrupt, head coach on suspension, i will stop there The Southern Kings are not even a team, how can they be playing in the Vodacom Cup. The EP Kings play in the Vodacom Cup, they did alright this with the U/23 team they sent to represent them. Lets see what they achieve in the First Division Currie Cup, if they dont make the playoffs then you can start pointing your fingers again Give the Southern Kings 2 years and I am sure you will not be the only one surprised at their results By the way, only Super rugby teams are franchises. So the Lions have been one since 1996 EP/Border have been around for the same time as Transvaal/Lions or even longer if I may not be mistaken

      basiladams.basil - 2012-06-27 09:15

      Well said Pat and @ timothy tell me how many players of colour did the kittens produce in the last 18years? come I tell u only 1 that is Habana and he was wise to go to the bulls,so let's see what the Kings have to offer I bet they will win more games than the kittens have in the last 2year u vaalies will never come right!!!!

      timothy.martin.9655 - 2012-06-27 09:47

      I will have you know that by no means am I a Varlie as I live in Natal. It should not be about color either, it should be by Merit, I would happily put a bet on that the Kings as they stand now would never beat the Lions, it would be a massacre. The Kings can not even make the semis of the Vodacom cup for f#### sake. Wake up smell the roses and get real you fools

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:44

      Patrick I think they have to win the First Division this year. And the other two areas adding players to the Kings squad have to be up there as well. One worry I did have in the Vodacom Cup is that there weren't as many players of colour in the Kings as there were in the other franchises. This is not being political, but they have been put forward as the "transformation" franchise. Lastly, most of the Vodacom sides are made up of mainly u/23 players. The Sharks side who beat you in the Quarter Final was only U23 I believe. The Sharks did use the Vodacom Cup to sharpen Beast up in a few games. Bear in mind the number of U23 players in Super Rugby sides this year, one even started for the Boks! Being young is no longer an excuse.

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-27 11:06

      The EPRU was started before the TVL rugby union. EP since 1888. Only older teams are Griquas and WP.

      timothy.martin.9655 - 2012-06-27 11:51

      So this does not say too much for the EP franchise as a whole. How many Currie Cups and other competitions have they won. Just because they are an old Franchise it does not mean they can play Rugby, as their results in the Vodacom comptition shows. None of the Kings fans admit that this is a political doing and that thy will get murdered. Can you imagine the score against a full on Crusaders or Bulls or even Sharks side. It will actually be on the verge of being dangerous for the players.

      ruhan.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 11:58

      timothy you should stop living in the past, the lions have done more for NZ and OZ rugby by giving them bonus points when bulls/stormers/sharks need them to win...give the EP a chance if they fail then the lions can get their shot again, the watson family is not the problem

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-27 15:52

      never said being an old union gives the kings the right, just merely pointing out why mention the lions being over a 100 years old if the Kings are older...??? it just a bad point to try and make. Not saying the Lions dont have a history, just pointing out the EP has one 2. And the franchise exist out of SWD, EP & Border. (all 3 of them has a history of more than 100 years). We admit it mght be political, but unfortunately politics has always been part of rugby, just the players have changed.

  • john.fourie1 - 2012-06-27 08:26

    Top 5 finishers in Currie Cup should be the only qualified teams to play Super Rugby, thats what it is suppossed to be about the best provincial taking on each other. Just think even Griquas would then play before the Kings

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 08:59

      That makes sense Super Rugby should represent your country like how it works in Aus/NZ

      Marcel - 2012-06-27 13:08

      @ patrick, well wouldn't the top five teams in your domestic league mean that it is representing your countries top five teams

      terry.burne - 2012-06-27 14:54

      @ Patrick Cawood - I strongly disagree. I believe that we should revert back to a Super 12 tournament with 4 teams from each country - and in each of the countries they have a domestic competition (such as the Currie Cup) so that all of the franchises compete for a top 4 position in order to participate in the next Super 12 competition. The top players from the provinces that do not make the Super 12 can then be drafted intoone of the Super 12 teams in order to bolster their team. That would provide a better balance between the domestic competition (e.g. Currie Cup) and the Super Rugby tournament.

      ChrisinOz294 - 2012-06-28 05:05

      @Patrick Cawood. Just remind us again of how many Fijians are there in the AB side? And how many true Maori's again? (Not those claiming to be a Maori because their great grandfather's aunt was married to a Maori). And also, how many Aborigines in the Australian team - Will Genia is from Papua New Guinea by the way. And also inform us a bit about all the Fijians and Tongans in the Wallabies squad. So I do not think you should talk about representation from an Australian or NZ point of view. The strongest 5 teams in SA are representing South African rugby. The Kings are only representative of political interference and ANC apartheid/discrimination.

  • stampalex - 2012-06-27 08:28

    Hey Cheeky... Come out of the ANC's bum long enough to get air? Howzit. So what's new? You still destroying EP rugby? OF course you are and hows the ANC relation ship going? Still bed buddies I see... NIce one. Anyway, back up the hole you go. Cheers.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 09:45

      whose bum have you been hiding in?

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 17:32

      @ stampalex, Cheeky is doing wonders for EP Rugby, you support the Lions so dont know what running a union is all about I much rather prefer bad to pretty good than from bad to worse @ Martin, your partner is crime stapalex does not know what he is speaking about so why dont you try debate on here rather than making comments 7 year olds would make

  • ruan.vanniekerk.754 - 2012-06-27 08:28

    You guys are right. It is political. They don't want to play the lions for the place, only because they want the lions to bow out with some dignity at least. Hahahahaha

  • lionel.kemm.9 - 2012-06-27 08:29

    Whether or not the Kings deserve Super rugby status is another debate but one has to really feel for the PE fans,they starving for better rugby.

  • Emile - 2012-06-27 08:30

    Money can't buy the Kings, but we all know money most certainly can buy Watson. Kings has no business in top rugby and must earn the right to play Super Rugby.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 09:00

      Am I missing something? Does Cheeky own EP Rugby?

      timothy.martin.9655 - 2012-06-27 09:14

      Patrick, get out of your dream world and pay attention, Cheeky almost does own EP Rugby.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 09:48

      @ Timothy, Cheeky almost does own EP Rugby.....explain? it's a union, you get voted into a position by your peers

      martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 14:48

      Cheeky Watson is a bum and nothing more, low life scumbag!!!

  • Kevin - 2012-06-27 08:32

    How can anyone be so determined to see his rugby team demolished and humiliated?

  • will.bains.50 - 2012-06-27 08:36

    Kom aan Lions. Julle speel nie S15 volgende jaar nie. Dalk moet julle almal in julle ho..e gen.... word sodat julle ore kan oopgaan.

  • grant.butler.104 - 2012-06-27 08:36

    Where there is smoke there is fire....I reckon a deal is being brokered...

  • eric.schollar - 2012-06-27 08:39

    Its the Cheeky and Puke show - nobody's interested! Perhaps SARU should just give the pair of them a mirror so they can admire themselves without bothering anyone else.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 09:01

      think the whole of the EC are Eric

  • Boereroo - 2012-06-27 08:40

    Haha, next year you can all puke on the EP jersey when you see the scores

  • henk.venter.754 - 2012-06-27 08:41

    Ek is glad nie 'n ondersteuner van enige van die Watsons nie, maar wragtag na die gemors op en van die veld by die GLRU waar virusse in sa rugby politiek gekweek word, is dit die Kings seersekerlik die beste ding wat met rugby kan gebeur. Hopelik kry hulle borge en die spelers om die ding te kan doen. Moet net nie die slapgatte wat nie gedissiplineer wil word by die Leeus kontrakteur nie. Na hulle die Curriebeker gewen het, het hulle sweerlik vergeet van Dok Craven se woorde, die speler is nooit groter as die game nie!!

  • roy.wadhams.1 - 2012-06-27 09:04

    This Watson "ou" is one liar. We will see in a few months how much he was paid by SARU. If things do not work out he can always turn to the ANC to get the people on a massive march to back him

  • Lourens - 2012-06-27 09:22

    Can SA Rugby at least send out a press release and explain this basar situatuon. It seems like SA Rugby owe the Watsons something. Why would NZ and Aus agree to this? Are they not part of this super rugby competition?

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:47

      NZ and Aus are probably disinterested at the moment. Next year when they see how all the SA sides get 9 or 10 points from the Kings they will certainly complain. After all only four side from each area get to play the Kings, but only once!!!

  • Stephan Bothma - 2012-06-27 09:28

    The Lions do not have the depth required to excel in SuperRugby - however they will still slaughter the Kings based on current form. How does the Kings think they will be able to compete in SuperRugby if they can't even make the Premier Currie Cup division? They will have to buy players to compete - does that not then defeat the purpose of developing EC talent and giving previously disadvantaged an opportunity? Basically the top Lions players that cannot get better contracts elsewhere will just end up playing for the Kings and the Lions will basically just play with new jerseys at a new stadium!

      andre.potgieter.5 - 2012-06-27 09:41

      Steven, this is exactly what is happening. Eastern Cape develop young players, just for the bigger provinces to buy them. Latest example is Jacques Potgieter and before him Dewald Potgieter...

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:48

      And Andre that differs from the Lions how? Jacque Fourie and Bryan Habana are two of many examples...

  • andre.potgieter.5 - 2012-06-27 09:37

    I think all rugby lovers must wait and see. Kings players, playing for all the other franchises will come home to roost! Lets wait and see how the other franchises do without Kings players. I can mention all of them, but it will take a lot of space!!

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:52

      This is a common comment by Kings' supporters. Please explain why on earth these players would return? Being a franchise in Super Rugby does not stop "your players" moving to other teams. Just this week the Stormers and Bulls have lost a player each to Irish sides! A few weeks back a Cheetahs player signed for an Australian side! This is the world as we know it. I can't see that the Eastern Cape is so special this will not happen to the Kings...

  • anneck.cranke - 2012-06-27 09:38

    They should rename the competition next year to Super 14 plus one.

  • Dean - 2012-06-27 09:41

    Cheeky Watson, you're an absolute joke, with a joke of a union and a team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 10:09


      Marcel - 2012-06-27 13:24

      It is self explanatory

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 17:34

      @ Marcel, the records speak for themselves since Cheeky has come onboard, you should try do some more research before thinking you are making sense

  • Gideon - 2012-06-27 09:46

    To all the clever give give give EP supporters who slate the Lions must keep in mind that the Lions are the Currie Cup champions. Super 15 is about 4 leagues above your capabilitiy. That trophy is not GIVEN to anyone!!!!!!!!

  • denepaul - 2012-06-27 09:51

    Watson should take the deal - it will fill EP rugby coffers and give them serious exposure to high level rugby that they desperately need - while attracting a huge fan base - and all that while having the cash to attract some serious talent - all of which would turn the Kings into a real force. Lets face it, they will be the whipping boys of super rugby 2013 and an even bigger embarrassment than the Lions. If they dont go for the deal the maybe its time to replace Cheeky Watson with someone who has a brain.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 11:07

      Why not say No to the deal Get massive amounts of money for SANZAR, get BIG sponsors and attract more players as you can offer them more money and Super 15 rugby

  • John - 2012-06-27 10:00

    You can shout & scream & stomp your feet all you like but the EP Kings are in the S15 next year. 99% of the negative comments made here are based on racism. None of the allegations with regards to what Cheeky Watson's motives are have been validated. The truth of the matter is he has done for black rugby what no other has done. This at a huge sacrifice. Has he pushed his son? Yes he has what father wouldn't. Hate him you may but at the very least admit he has balls. For those of you who predict disaster I ask you - can they be worse than the Lions? As for the region & the Kings board, kindly note the tests they have hosted have been highly successful as has been the 7's and so will the S15 games.

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 10:57

      Read PdV's book, you may see Cheeky in a different light. There are obviously two sides to every story, but when it comes to Cheeky the stories are often consistent. The Lions have two wins this season already, so yes they can be worse than the Lions! And please explain to me how my wanting my Lions side to remain in Super Rugby makes me a racist! In SA "racism" is the common ranting when the person has no actual proof, does this go for your argument as well?

      chris.holtshausen - 2012-06-27 16:02

      100% behind you John. For all these negative fools it's all about a racist hate against the Watson's. Dit gaan nie oor of die Kings goed genoeg is nie....dit is bloot 'n rasgedrewe haat teenoor die Watson's. Wat die ape ook sukkel om te verstaan is dat enige belowende speler wat nie seker is van sy plek in een van die ander Super-spanne nie, sal verseker spring om vir die Kings te gaan speel. Almal weet tog daar is geen lojaliteit vandag meer in sport nie. So, die vraag is bloot: Wil jy blootstelling he deur te speel of wil jy erens 'n 3/4/5de keuse speler by een van die ander Franchises wees? Glo my hul sal toustaan om te teken vir die Kings.

  • marlin.samuels.1 - 2012-06-27 10:07

    if the kings built a team from 2011 then they would have been fairly close in challenging any1 in the super championship, politics in sport will remain, i dont see anything happening here in the eastern cape until a non white president is elected.

      marius.olivier.7 - 2012-06-27 11:16

      @marlin. EP has had non-white presidents since 1994 and that is why EP went from finishing 3rd in the Currie Cup A-section to last in the 1st Division and was also completely bankrupted financially during that period that they were in charge. Only since Cheeky took over, and I don't like him or his politics either, but have to give credit where it is due, did both the situation on and off the field improve drastically.

      SpringBok - 2012-06-27 17:04


  • dustin.dewet - 2012-06-27 10:08

    I've got nothing against the Kings or Watson but I would have liked the Kings to first find their feet at Currie Cup level and then get promoted to Super rugby. EP traditionally had very strong sides for decades and produced quite a number of Springboks but it's a shame politics and individual agendas reduced them to a shadow of their former selves. I think the real issue here is the unwillingness of SARU to put their foot down and tell their NZ and Aus counterparts that as the biggest financial contributor (70%) we will no longer tolerate being told what we can and cannot do. We will only benefit from having another franchise included meaning that more players will get exposure and far less players would have to look abroad to further their careers. Even if they do suffer a couple of big losses I suspect it would only be at the hands of 3 or 4 teams. We have so much talent coming through each season that to produce 6 quality sides should not be a problem. Two decades ago we had 6 provincial sides that gave any international touring side a good run for their money. The same cannot be said for any other country including NZ. As Springbok supporters it is of vital importance that every region is represented to ensure the maximum amount of players get the exposure needed and we should be far less concerned about what NZ and Aus rugby wants.

      Marcel - 2012-06-27 13:33

      everybody in sanzar including saru agreed to have 5 teams in the competition until 2015, contract signed now you want them to go and say, oops we made a mistake please get everybody involved and lets change this agreed contract cause we want another team in. you obvioulsy don't know the magnitude of the situation.

  • gordon.pillay.73 - 2012-06-27 10:09

    All you chaps have to do is to check attendance, if the Lions had even half of the supporters to fill the stadiums as the Kings had regularly done, their finances would be much better. The reason for their empty stadiums is due to what?........very poor performances. Financially EP has never been this great, and now that they have proven they can host succesfully continously, its time to reap the benefits....thats no hand out just pure and simple business earned!! or what have you been told by the media?!

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 11:02

      Gordon when the Boks play in Jo'burg there are big crowds. For the first couple of games in Super Rugby the crowds in PE will be large. A few bad losses will see these numbers reduce until PE stadium will look, well it will look like Ellis Park! Please explain how the Kings are not been given their place in Super Rugby, how it is not a "hand out"? How is this "business earned"? They certainly have not earned their place!

  • Faizie - 2012-06-27 10:11

    And the band played :Believe me if you like

  • mike.doo - 2012-06-27 10:16

    Why don't they let the Lions Play the Kings and thw winner (best team) plays Super Rugby

  • mike.doo - 2012-06-27 10:20

    Let the Lions play the Kings in a 3 match play off and the winner (best team) in the Super rugby?

      anneck.cranke - 2012-06-27 10:24

      Mike, we all know that won't work. The Kings would just keep losing all three games, and they would never go through.

      luke.sportify - 2012-06-27 18:04

      Sorry Mike you are not making any sense......The Southern Kings have not even formed and you want them to play against the Lions

  • patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 10:22

    Lots of interesting comments below Quite a few that make no sense either, but thats normal on Sport24 All I can say is i am glad rugby will be back in the EC next season!! EC RUGBY ON THE RISE

      greg.townes.5 - 2012-06-27 10:40

      Patrick, I am a Stormer supporter. I beleive EC Rugby will get better over the 3 year period (each franchise has a 3 year license to join the SANZAR Super 15, but only 5 teams may enter and Southern Kings are first to be chosen). With the inflow of money into that region, players will be paid better and retained. There is no requirement to win the Vodacom cup or Currie Cup to gain an automatic license. Go Southern Kings and see what happens after 3 years. See if you better the Lions record. It is SARFU who has placed rugby in this situation, not Southern Kings. Well done to the final test against England.

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 11:03

      Greg, that's your two bonus points talking :-)

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 11:06

      Greg, another question how does Super Rugby help you retain players? The two sides who are current top of the SA conference have each lost a promising young player this week alone! You would expect a side to at least achieve distinction by winning a Currie Cup or Vodacom Cup before being thrown to the wolves in Super Rugby wouldn't you?

      greg.townes.5 - 2012-06-27 12:12

      Sean, the players lost are due to financial issues. As much as WP/Bulls would love to retain the youngsters, they cannot afford to do so, especially when spending has to be within budget. Cannot afford a squad of 50. Also consider game time for these players. CJ is gone due to captain Spies (CJ is an 8th man) and Quin is gone due to too many other players in front. Simple supply and demand. Also consider what they players may learn abroad, especially with Leinster. Lions are going to lose players because they are not part of S15. These guys get paid more. If I was Josh Strauss, I would get a contract with EP or WP for next 2 years as an 8th man and move Watson to flank, or at WP, cover for Duane Vermeulen

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 19:18

      Greg the Lions lost players when they played Super Rugby. As did the Bulls. As did the Cheetahs. As did the Stormers. etc. And the Kings will do so too. I believe that some players will not give the Kings a second thought due to the manner in which they were given their spot in Super Rugby. Of course I may be wrong on this. The Lions players who are good enough for Super Rugby will probably join the Bulls or Cheetahs, closer to home than PE. Josh, and Taute could quite easily fit into the Bulls game plan. Josh is better at flank than he is at 8th man. I can't see him playing second fiddle to Duane, nor Luke. Especially as Duane may only be 2nd in line for the Boks. The bad Lions players may try their hand at the Kings, this will benefit the players not the Kings. I'm not going to name names, but a winger comes to mind. I still stand by my point though that the Kings should have achieved something, before being given a spot in the toughest rugby tournament in the World! It just continues the feeling of entitlement that we have become so used to in SA...

  • francois.delange - 2012-06-27 11:28

    Cheeky, money cannot buy victories either, maybe political connections.

  • proudfoots - 2012-06-27 11:29

    If the Spears can beat the lowest ranked team in the SA conference (Lions) in a promo/relegation game then they earn the right to play..... I would have loved to see what SARU would have done if all the SA teams were in the Top Half of the overall super 15 table, but unfortunately the Lions have been sold out by their management structures and sponsors. The Lions CEO and his predasessors should be ashamed of allowing the once powerhouse of SA Rugby to degenerate into the doldrums of last place on the table.... but we need to avoid another SA team being at the bottom so the Spears need to prove all of us wrong and play the promo/relegation game and if the win then claim their right to play....

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 12:02

      The Spears?? where have you been hiding?

  • jacques.duplessis.3785 - 2012-06-27 11:31

    If the lions can't win with a great coach and average players,how are the kings gonna win with a crap coach and even more useless players?#whatajoke#

      ruhan.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 12:02

      do you know who is the director of rugby at the EP jacques?

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 12:03

      @ Jacques, who are the coaches for the Southern Kings?

      greg.townes.5 - 2012-06-27 12:27

      Jacques. the Kings are going to go on a spending spree to build up the team over next 3 years. Maybe some of the Lions want to move? Josh Struass...

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-27 16:19

      Coaches at the Kings: Director of rugby - Anrew Solomons Head Coach - Matt Sexton (previously with crusaders as Junior and assistant coach) Defence Coach - Omar Mouneimne (rated as one of the best defensive coaches and break down specialists in world rugby) will be assisted by De Wet Barry Skills Coach - Brad Mooar (previously with crusaders) Forwards Coach - Robbie Kempson (also head of the new accademy) Academy Coaches - Garerth Wright, Robbie Kempson 9and some senior players) Basically all of these coaches joined after the previous curriecup (so structures have improved a lot) dont think this coaching staff is as crap as you thought

      deon.dutoit.758 - 2012-06-28 08:50

      hey van coke, they way you spell these coaches names and name them i dont think you really know much anyway. oh by the way, who are these names that you mention aynway, alan solomons - just jumped on the band wagoon cos he was told years ago what cheeky had organised. If these coaches are there, why isnt the team beating the currie-cup teams yet?... or even Vodacom cup teams for that matter???

      brandewijn.vancoke - 2012-06-28 17:06

      @deon - as far as the vodacom cup goes they never played a full strength team. mostly u23 team. (then the result not as bad as you think) they played a lot of u21 players in the vodacom cup as part of develoing the players from the newly established accademy (only1 year old)

  • melvin.snaaiker - 2012-06-27 12:03

    the poor ep kings fans are going to have to watch their useless team lose every game next year by 70 - 100 points. SARU don't do this to them! Let them stay in the vodacom cup and the currie cup 1st division where at least they will only lose to teams like Boland and the Pumas by 30!

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 17:37

      let this years results speak for themselves

  • riaan.kasselman - 2012-06-27 12:08

    The only thing I would like to ask Cheeky is who is going to play for the Kings in next year's Super Rugby, the current players they've got that couldn't even beat the Pumas in this year's Vodacom cup semi final or a new team that is still to decided? If the reason for bringing the Super Rugby to the E.P is to promote the current players in the union they will fail. The only way to give them I fighting chance would be to buy players from other unions, most likely the bulk of the players currently under contract with the Lions as they would probably be the team that would have to make way for the Kings. I think this Super Rugby thing 100% for personal gain, maybe a free ticket to Aus and New Zealand next year him and his son, the last people on his mind is his current team, as the bulk of them would never see a Super Rugby game next year, nor will the so-called previously disadvantaged players in the area.

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 17:40

      @ Riaan, Alan Solomons picked mainly an u/23 team for this years Vodacom Cup to see who is worthy of taking the next step up. Lets see how the senior players perform in the Currie Cup First Division, saying that they do need another 10-20 new signings. Lets hope they start arriving once all this mess has been sorted out by SARU.

      luke.sportify - 2012-06-27 18:02

      Riaan, you need to go out more and spend less time doing what you currently do

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 19:25

      Patrick you keep going on about U23 players! Did you watch any Vodacom Cup rugby? Most of the teams were made up of U23 players! So that is not an excuse. We will be watching the First Division with interest...

      melvin.snaaiker - 2012-06-28 13:53

      @Patrick here is the lions side that played the leopards in the vodacom cup earlier this year: Marais Schmidt, Ruan Combrink, Bradley Moolman, Robert de Bruyn (capt.), Anthony Volmink, Andries Coetzee, Ross Cronje, Ruann Lerm, Uzair Cassiem, Jaco Kriel, Paul Willemse, Hendrik Roodt, Van Zyl Botha, Edgar Marutlulle, Ruan Dreyer. Replacements: Francois du Toit, Wessel du Rand, Fabian Booysen, Stephan de Wit, Nico Kruger, Garth April, Harold Vorster. take note that the only players in the side that didn't play either u/19 or u/21 rugby last year are Edar Marutlulle, Ross Cronje, Jaco Kriel and Hendrik Roodt. I think you would find a similar story at other unions like wp, the sharks and the bulls.

  • jaco.terblanche2 - 2012-06-27 12:49

    Lets see next years result Stomers 90+ Kings 9, Crusaders 90+ Kings 6 ..................................

      martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 14:50

      Jaco, you are being optimistic, try 100 – 0!!!

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 17:46

      the EP Kings without any new signings and without SWD/Border players played both the Stormers/Sharks in Feb and lost both games 38-13

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 19:25

      There is a difference between warm-up games and games for log points!

  • Andrew2711 - 2012-06-27 12:51

    I think giving them money so they can attract decent players and automatic qualification into the Currie Cup next year is a good idea. Let them buy a fairly decent team and work on combinations in the Vodacom Cup and then (with hopefully a settled combination) play the CC. At the end of next season there can be a relegation playoff match (best of 3?) between bottom S15 team and the Kings or then give them a shot at S15. To let them play next year in S15 would do them more harm than good as they'll get torn to shreds and will have no chance of attracting sponsors to let them buy better players.

      Izak - 2012-06-27 14:24

      The bottom line is this! You cannot bribe your way to victory between the four white line on a rugby field like a lot of politicians do to achieve their goals, Politics in sport will always stay an absolute disaster and as a Sout African team that is going to be beaten 150+ in each and every matck it is going to reflect on SARU and not the EP province. Who and what ever the Watson clan might be, this is not the way to do it. I really hope that sanity will prevail and that EP Kings will step back UNTILL they are ready to compete at TWO levels higher than where they currntly stand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      patrickjasoncawood - 2012-06-27 17:49

      @Iazk, where have you been hiding?Your Stormers will still fail to score the 4 tries needed for a bonus point against the SK's EP will never be ready so may as well be thrown in the deep end and show what they are made of. In that get sponsors and build the squad and start producing some positive results

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 14:51

    Cheeky Watson is a low life scumbag!!!!

      martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 14:52

      Waiting for Patrick Cawood now to respond!!!

      luke.sportify - 2012-06-27 17:59

      U guys getting bored in Jozies that you have nothing better to do Would rather have Cheeky than the fools who have been running the GLRU to the ground

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 19:27

      Luke, sometimes better the devil you know...

  • steveroodt - 2012-06-27 15:32

    Cheeky and Luke you are political puppies and have no place in S,A Rugby. As Luke can spit on the Springbok badge i spit on you

      luke.sportify - 2012-06-27 18:00

      Sorry Squatters dont have a say

  • adrien.mcguire - 2012-06-27 15:56

    You need to EARN your place.... you have learnt too much from the ANC !!

  • luke.sportify - 2012-06-27 18:06

    How can most of you seriously think that having a promotion/relegation game this year is even possible? Please explain as I cant believe the thought even comes up in your heads No thumbs down but proper comments please, thanks

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-06-27 19:33

      Luke we've had this discussion already before the tests. Where is the squad? If it is not already in training the Kings will not win the First Division, so then they cannot expect to be given a spot in Super Rugby without sarcastic comments! I'd go so far to say that the squad for their Super Rugby campaign should already be training together otherwise it is going to be an embarrassing 2013! The Lions stuffed up by beating the Sharks, a lot of people were running them down but a win like that, and maybe another one or two makes it harder to substantiate the Kings inclusion. Answer honestly, will you support a promotion / relegation game next year between the Kings and Lions when the Kings come last? You can't really hey, because the situation is identical to this year, except the shoe is on the other foot.

      luke.sportify - 2012-06-28 13:44

      @ Sean, how can Southern Kings start recruiting with no real guarantee of Super 15 rugby next year? You need money to put a decent side together and without a guarantee no sponsors will come on board SARU are again messing the EC about Whats new??

      luke.sportify - 2012-06-28 13:44

      On the play off new I would not The SK's need at least 3 years to build a decent squad

  • steven.chiaberta - 2012-06-27 19:45

    As unfair as it is, and as wrong as it would be in any other country but ours, the fact is that the Kings HAVE to be given a chance because way too many of our rugby bosses, administrators, etc are still stuck in the past and simply refuse to give more than a 'politically acceptable' number of 'non white' players a genuine, decent chance. That's my opinion, and all the thumb downers, who are just as entitled to theirs, won't change my mind. I'm a Lions fan, I'm not a cheeky Watson fan, but I understand that the Kings must have a fair shot.

  • gerrit.volschenk - 2012-06-27 21:49

    What does it matter how bad the Lions are.The last game between the two sides was lost by the Kings 88 - 0.The Kings can not even qualify for a Vodacom Cup final.So what if the Lions can't fill the stadium they are still the better team and except for tests I have yet to see PE fill a stadium.They deserve it what a joke.This is rugby you deserve nothing you play for it.

  • keithronald.wildschut - 2012-06-27 21:58

    Most of you guys are missing the point.Kings will play in S15 whether we accept it or not.A few questions arises around this negativity i.e Can people hate others like this? is this not a bigger issue like fear for the mighty Elephants? some provinces know they won't be able to steal the players of the province again if there's the prospect of playing at S15 level in the province.In all the current franchises their are so many players from our province.Lets rather pull together and become more positive about rugby in the east Cape.