Southern Kings target 2012

2010-04-14 15:32

Port Elizabeth - South Africa’s Eastern Cape team the Southern Kings will be targeting 2012 as the year that they will have a team in the Super 15 after poor Super Rugby campaigns from the Lions and Cheetahs.

According to the Rugbyweek website, if plans by the South African and Border Rugby Unions come to fruition then the Lions or Cheetahs will be replaced by the Southern Kings in the Super 15 in 2012 which is sure to start a whole new internal fight within South African Rugby.

SARU officials committed themselves to this deadline in East London during a press conference to announce details of the Springboks' Test there in June against Italy.

The date will be the first time that East London will host a Test featuring a Six Nations team and the capacity of the stadium where the match will be played on June 26, will be increased to 15 000 people.

SARU officials say that they are taking transformation seriously as the area has always been the nursery for black players and supporters feel it now deserves a Super Rugby franchise.

Buntu Ondala, president of the Border Rugby Union says: "Our target is to say come 2012 and we will be saying: this is the team that we will be putting forward."

"But we are in the process of building it so we can say this is our team," he told the SABC.

The Lions have lost their last nine matches in a row and have not won a Super Rugby match since last year. They also have the worst defensive record in the tournament.

The Cheetahs have not faired much better and have the worst away record in the Super 14 which has led to talk about a promotion- relegation match for entry into the Super 15.
Speculation talk has the last placed South African team playing the Southern Kings for the fifth Super Rugby participation licence.

There are however no fixed plans whatsoever for this match and the Cheetahs and Lions appear to be entrenched in the Super 15 no matter how badly they fair.


  • Blackmamba - 2010-04-14 15:43

    This wont work! For example if the Cheetahs get relegated all there best players will go play for the kings, so what is the point?

  • Andre Uys - 2010-04-14 15:47

    I think it is time to resurrect the Cats again. Neither the Lions or the Cheetahs deserve to have a team in the competition on their own. Not that this will ever happen, but that is what should happen...

  • Rugby mad - 2010-04-14 15:50

    No side should be garanteed a place in Super 15 rugby, the top 5 Currie Cup teams should play, this is the fairest system and will make for one helluva Currie Cup season. SA rugby fans will have the best of both worlds and we might not just have two or three teams actually being competitive in "Super Rugby"

  • S - 2010-04-14 15:53

    are they not just swapping one pathetic team for another? I mean really what is the point?

  • Interested - 2010-04-14 15:57

    There should be a promotion / relegation from the super 14 within rugby structures to allow scenarios like this to be settled where the only answer really should lie , on the rugby field .

  • Armchair coach - 2010-04-14 15:57

    Could any explain why Souther Kings want to be in SS15. it does not make sense that as a country we can not field 75 decent players per weekend at Super Rugby we believe they will do better. If my little knowledge of Rugby is right Southern Kings consists of Border who are currently last in the Vodacom League. Please someone explain why they want to play premier division when they struggle at Division 2.

  • The Voice of Reason - 2010-04-14 15:57

    Be it in 2011, 2012 or 2016 (when the competition will expand again), the Kings will enter Super Rugby. Economics simply dictates this. There is a huge demand for top class rugby in the Eastern Cape. I'll wait for the day to happen.

  • Interested - 2010-04-14 15:58

    There should be a promotion / relegation from the super 14 within rugby structures to allow scenarios like this to be settled where the only answer really should lie , on the rugby field .

  • Green Blood - 2010-04-14 16:08

    How can a team deserve a spot in an international tournament on the basis that the supporters think so. They might deserve a chance to prove if they can compete or not. I would love to know how many Springboks have the Estern Cape produced in the last 15 years compared to the Lions and Cheetahs. The Eastern Cape had a competitive team in the Currie cup until the early 90's, but since then they have been very poor and are not even a top team in the 2nd division. What went wrong? I would also love to see more good black players in our top teams, but Sarfu should rather spend serious money on development of young players. If rugby is played more in previously disadvantaged areas we will have such a large group of players to chose from.

  • tvs - 2010-04-14 16:09

    I think it is brilliant, have a promotion relegation between the last SA team in S15 and the "other team" if S Kings get in then the next year last placed SA team plays the team that lost out the previous year. In the meantime the S Kings can play vodacom cup and the team that gets relegated can disolve their team into their own vodacom cup team.

  • Neil - 2010-04-14 16:12

    I have no objection to the Southern Kings wanting to replace the Cheetahs or the Lions,assuming that they are the last SA team, but have a suggestion that they Play-Off against the bottom South African team at the end of the 2011 Super 14 season. Where will they get their players? Surely they will take up the best of the bottom team players! Defeats the object of using their own players, or am I being naieve? This cannot be good for South African Rugby!

  • terry - 2010-04-14 16:12

    The only reason the Cheetahs exist in the Super 14 is to piss off the Sharks!!! For the past umpteen years, they have succeeded in only winning 1 game a year - and that is against the Sharks. As a Sharks supporter I say (tongue in cheek) - get rid of the Cheetahs!

  • Ziets - 2010-04-14 16:18

    Come on...!!!..The Southern Kings, this is a joke, have you seen the log at the Vodacom Cup lately have a look who's last, 2nd from the bottom and 3rd from the botton, pleeaaasssee

  • denis - 2010-04-14 16:18

    Here is a suggestion. Have 6 permanent franchises, of which 5 take part each season. At the end of each season have a little relegation/promotion series between the bottom 2 South African s14 finishers and the franchise which did not play that year. eg this year between the Lions, Cheetahs and Southern Spears. The non-playing franchise will need sufficient funding to attract and develop good coaching staff and players, and play worthwhile practice matches, against for example varsity cup sides, SAu21 and good overseas club sides. If the ministry of sport is serious about transformation it could facilitate this. Or if that is too complicated, at the end of each season the worst SA side loses its place to the 6th franchise, in which case the Spears and Lions will play alternate seasons, probably with some of the same players anyway.

  • Alain - 2010-04-14 16:20

    SARU should relegate the lowest ranking SA teams in the "Super" rugby competition (S14) from 2012 and onwards to keep the stronger teams in the competition. If the teams perform well in the Currie cup then they get to play in the S14 or S whatever. That'll make interesting... I think

  • Alain - 2010-04-14 16:21

    SARU should relegate the lowest ranking SA teams in the "Super" rugby competition (S14) from 2012 and onwards to keep the stronger teams in the competition. If the teams perform well in the Currie cup then they get to play in the S14 or S whatever. That'll make interesting... I think

  • LW - 2010-04-14 16:22

    Will they be King of the most Southern position on the points table?

  • LW - 2010-04-14 16:25

    Will they be King of the most Southern position on the points table?

  • LW - 2010-04-14 16:26

    Will they be King of the most Southern position on the points table?

  • James - 2010-04-14 16:28

    During the last world cup year All Black players pulled out of the super 14. All SA, Aus & NZ players are complaining their is to much rugby on. Now they are adding another team. Rather keep the Super 14 teams. Add a second division. 3 from Argentian. 1 from SA, Aus & NZ. Somia, Fiji, Tonga. 3 Japan & 3 from China. Top 2 teams from Division 2 play the losing two team from current Super 14.

  • Blitzi - 2010-04-14 16:28

    The Southern Kings are like most disadvantage people in this country, want everything for free... I agree that if they are good enough, they deserve to play in the S15. But as many people said it, proof it on the field. Let there be a tri-province tournament between the Spears, Lions and Cheethas. Whom ever are the two top teams, let them play S15, but I can promise you the Spears will have to be very good to score even one try against a team like the Lions, with their bad defence and all...

  • Reinardt Bronkhorst - 2010-04-14 16:36

    It's africa people, so in reality it has nothing to do with the best. The lions and the cheetahs should go full stop. Then the Eastern Cape get's the 4rth SA team. Perform or not, they deserve a team, it's our chance now.

  • craig - 2010-04-14 16:36

    Lets launch the cats again and then the kings can have a go and this way we get more in line with all areas having a chance to show what they got. Anything is better than the lions at this moment and maybe the kings will produce a few springboks although Japan has still not produced any locks.

  • Herman - 2010-04-14 16:37

    HA!HA! They will probably be in the same league as the Cheetahs and Lions. They should rather fix the club rugby scene.

  • The Godfather - 2010-04-14 16:50

    I say bring back the Cats. They at least made the semi finals one year in the Super 12. This Kings thing is never going to just go away, so bring back the Cats and give the Kings a shot. This would solve a lot of problems considering the Loins and Cheethas don't have much depth. If the Kings then lose by 100 so be it.

  • Reality - 2010-04-14 16:56

    SA probably has one too many teams in Super Rugby as it is. We do not have enough quality players to sustain the current 5 teams, and replacing one weak team with another (maybe weaker) team is not the answer. The ideal of an Eastern Cape team that encompasses the progression and development of the players in that area, may well be a noble one; however simply not practical (yes, I said it out loud). The Eastern Cape are a very long way from having enough talent to qualify for top tier Currie Cup rugby, never mind posting a credible performance in Super Rugby. The old adage of attempting to run before learning to walk. In the Southern Section of the Vodacom Cup, Eastern Province (P6 W2), SWD (P6 W1) and Border (P6 W0) are placed 6th, 7th and 8th respectively. Are we really expecting them to improve enough to play Super Rugby in 2 years? SA Rugby can not afford to dilute our Super Rugby talent pool any further. Give the Spears a chance in the First Division to prove their worth and earn qualification into the Currie Cup Premier Division, and take it from there. The real problem that needs to be addressed, is how to retain more of the talent within the region. Thrusting them into Super Rugby is not the magic wand in this regard.

  • MB - 2010-04-14 17:26

    You can talk until you blue in the face about merit and deserving it on performance. But that is not up for discussion here. We want a team in the S14 and thats that. We want to travel with the team to OZ and NZ. We want to play this who's the boss thing. We want. The rugby admin in the E/cape is run on the same lines as the city and towns are run. It's not about performance/delivery. It is ...we want.

  • pete - 2010-04-14 17:29

    Blackmamba - if you have been blown out of the water by refs to satisfy political aims - like the case have been with the Cheetahs you would rather go and play in France, Japan or even Outer Mongolia!

  • craig - 2010-04-14 17:39

    @realty all the long facts that you gave we already know and we also know that they wont make it on your format so put them in the super 15 with more money and sponsors and a few top players and send them to tour nz and aus and if we get 4 springboks in 3years then well done at least they can have a go with the same amount of money as the big unions and please dont start them off on tour against crusaders and blues then down to chiefs or hurricanes because then we will have less players to choose from in the border and pe regions as they wont come to practise.

  • Groot Leeu Christo - 2010-04-14 18:17

    Dumb nuts! The Southern Kings are useless and so is the structures in the Eastern Cape. Gone are the days where E.P. was a force in rugby, etc. Days of Adri Geldenhuys and Garth Right and co. Their players should be handed to Unions like the Sharks and Stormers for the S14 and soon to be S15. Cheetahs and Lions should stay.... Cheetahs had a good start to the season and just need mental toughness, whilst the Lions are a young team with much potential if they sort out their defense. Both of them should stay!

  • AJ - 2010-04-14 19:35

    Everybody wants to get rid of the Cheetahs. Now everybody has a lot so say about the Cheetahs. I agree they do not have a coach or especially a backline coach, Hawies is useless!!!! Remember the fist seasons of the Bulls in super rugby…1998 – 11th second last; 1999 – 12th last , 2000 – 11th second last, 2002 – 12th last. nobody said anything. The Cheetahs need a flyhalf, Coach and a backline coach

  • Far and Away - 2010-04-14 19:37

    @ Reinardt Bronkhorst. With all my heart i hope your statement is one of irony, or at worst possibly sarcastic. My brother, you can't possibly say that people deserve something and by the same token say that they are not good enough. It is a contradiction in terms, for if you are not good enough, you deserve nothing. To suggest otherwise is to promote injustice. If you publicly promote injustice, you may never complain over injustice in any form. If you do, it makes you hypocritical. Finally, it is precisely this kind of "this is Africa" reasoning that has people justifying mediocrity, corruption and injustice in all its forms. Be sure injustice flourishes because we allow it to... Be it in Africa or elsewhere.

  • moedeloos - 2010-04-14 20:17

    so if we have a relagation match does that mean that if the bulls or stormers finish last that they will play out against the spears one thing that everybody forgets is that from next season the format changes all sa teams play against each other and if im right that means the top 2 teams from each region sa nz aus go through to next round so in fact it means that the lions and cheetahs wont be so shit because they playing home and away games agains sa teams and we know they play better agains home sides so that means any one of sa teams can finish last so by the way cats never worked thats because bloem and jburg is a bit far to travel for training why not put the lions with the bulls and see how they cry about that 30min apart

  • Yes2Kings - 2010-04-14 20:29

    Lions and Cheetahs are useless! If the kings are given a definitive assuarance that they will be added in 2012 this will give them enough time to get sponsors onboard and bring in quality players. Once this is established they have many quality rugby clubs and schools in the union to act as feeder system but currently is always lost to bigger unions.

  • AJ - 2010-04-14 20:33

    Everybody wants to get rid of the Cheetahs. Now everybody has a lot so say about the Cheetahs. I agree they do not have a coach or especially a backline coach, Hawies is useless!!!! Remember the fist seasons of the Bulls in super rugby…1998 – 11th second last; 1999 – 12th last , 2000 – 11th second last, 2002 – 12th last. nobody said anything. The Cheetahs need a flyhalf, Coach and a backline coach

  • @AJ - 2010-04-14 21:32

    The difference between the other 4 S14 franchises and the Tjietas is action. The Tjietas management are yet to take any sort of action in rectifying there glaringly obvious problems........even the Lions are taking steps to turn their franchise around...the Nulle did the same, yet the Tjietas approach to the S14 has yet to change.

  • Emile - 2010-04-15 08:59

    That means we'll be stuck with the Lions and Cheetahs for another year. Can't be true. Who paid who here? Surely the Lions and Cheetahs don't deserve to be in Super 14 next year. Why wait another year? I'm sure the Spears will have more depth than the Cheetahs or Lions. I don't think they will ever need a coach to stand in for some games. I just wonder what is gonna happen to the Cheetahs and/or Lions after next year. If you think no player wants to play for them - wait until next year !!! Two strong union went down the drain thanx to excellent administration and they are still going strongs - well deserved.

  • Dronkie - 2010-04-15 09:09

    Coming from the Border region I should be the first to say YES to the KINGS but judging what happened to the SPEARS, I can safely say, very bad idea guys. - Now here is my sugestion, A franchise made up of the U19 and U23 baby boks or emerging talents perhaps - get some overseas based players back and get up and coming youngsters to form the core of the team - play them for two seasons in the VodaCOM cup and if the WIN the cup, re-introduce the Cats and register the Kings as a 14th team !!!

  • Ice - 2010-04-15 10:37

    As everyone here has already mentioned, there is no point to introducing the Southern Kings if all they are going to be doing is replacing one terrible side with another terrible side. SA Rugby merely ends up looking like fools to the rest of the world as well as NZRU and ARU. I do believe that the Lions and the Cheetahs shouldn't be in Super Rugby as they just cannot compete at that level. Perhaps re-introducing the Cats franchise and then introducing the spears as a franchise made up of players from all provinces not competing in Super rugby would be a better way to go but merely putting a team in for the sake of transformation is not a good enough reason. There is apparently going to be a conference system in the new Super 15 like the Americans have with Basketball. 3 conferences made up of SA, Australia and NZ. This is how the local derby's will be played and then (I assume), the top teams from each conference then go and play each other abroad and at home to determine Semi-final spots. If this is indeed how it is going to work, the Southern Kings will never get the exposure SARU keeps going on about as they will never be top of the conference in SA with the likes of the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers who will most likely be the top 3 teams consistently. So what exactly is the point to transformation if it will actually never lead to anything in the long run? Better to have transformation happen at lower levels and then the players are of the proper calibur so that they can be put into the bigger teams on merit, and not color... Just my thoughts... comments welcome

  • MARS - 2010-04-15 10:37

    Just make the CATS come back, and bring in the spears

  • @craig - 2010-04-15 13:51

    Craig, throwing more money at the problem will not solve anything. This little saga has dragged on for a few years now, and all that has happened is that the money that was given to the Kings, and the Sears before them, has simply been wasted. Do we really need to throw more funds and sponsors down the money pit again before we start to learn the lesson here?

  • Pierre Loock - 2010-04-15 16:48

    All you idiots that just say bey to the cheethas or the Lions dont know anything about rugby do useless idiots think the spears will be better? these idiots cant even make the semi final of the vodacom cup so do you clever idiots think they will be able to win a single super14 Think again it is easy the top 5 teams in the currie cup plays super 15 in 2011 and every year after the

  • Perfect Sense - 2010-04-16 07:58

    Personally i think the Eastern Cape sides must first combine @ curriecup level before even thinking to think about entering super rugby. Make the Southern Kings a Currie Cup team.. And IF they are competetive they can enter the Super Rugby Scene.. PS I think the teams of Fidji, Samoa and Tonga must also be permanently combined and enter World Cup as one team (Like the West Indies of Cricket) and not only play friendlies

  • Perfect Sense - 2010-04-16 08:13

    Firstly, the Southern Kings must compete in the Currie Cup! IF they are competetive, there can be thoughts of maybe allowing them to play in Super Rugby. Otherwise there is no chance in hell that they will be better than the Cheetahs and Lions. PS. the Pacific Islanders must be a permanent institution, so that they can compete in the world cup and 5 nations (SA,NZ,AUS,ARG and Pacific Islanders)

  • @ Pierre Loock - 2010-04-16 09:28

    Do you think the Lions will win any game in the Super 14. You should think before you speak - IDIOT !!!

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