Boks tumble down in rankings

2011-10-18 08:20

Auckland - France's achievement in reaching the Rugby World Cup final has seen them rise to third place in the latest edition of the International Rugby Board (IRB) world rankings published Tuesday.

Their nailbiting 9-8 semi-final win over 14-man Wales here on Saturday took the French above both the Welsh and defending champions South Africa, with the Springboks dropping out of the top three for the first time since the start of the 2007 World Cup.

New Zealand, France's opponents in Sunday's World Cup final, remained top of the standings following a 20-6 semi-final win over Australia last weekend that still left the Wallabies in second place.

IRB World Rankings (position, (position last week), country, rating points):

1 (1) New Zealand 91.34

2 (2) Australia 86.49

3 (5) France 84.79

4 (3) South Africa 84.34

5 (6) England 81.58

6 (4) Wales 81.10

7 (7) Ireland 80.65

8 (8) Argentina 80.28

9 (9) Tonga 76.63

10 (10) Scotland 76.20


  • Lionel - 2011-10-18 08:24

    How does this work,France then lost to Tonga??????

      gerhard.nel - 2011-10-18 08:33

      It is bogus. We will easily beat France.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 09:00

      @Bok............................It is past your bedtime. Go brush your teeth and have a wee-wee and ask your Daddy to read you "Die 3 Varkies tussen die skape".

      Lionel - 2011-10-18 09:02

      Wow Bok,did you think that all up by yourself,well done there Bruce or must I say Sheila!!!!!

      Dougir - 2011-10-18 09:17

      @ Bok.....1st off please, I know its hard for you to say Bokke as you keep referring to our cricket team like most of you sheep toting morons. Fair play that the AB's look like a great side this year as always and would give us a great game had things been fair but no doubt that we would crush the Aussies and France given half a chance with no bias.....

      Bok - 2011-10-18 09:25

      Brett Did you Steal the Blackberry

      Felix - 2011-10-18 09:42

      Trolls gonna troll. GTFO Bok.

      Johan - 2011-10-18 09:48

      Agree Bok..!! ....the Protea-rugby-team and supporters are bad losers... ...and their "coach" is also a loser....! .....arent there any better coaches in SA than him...??

      Bob - 2011-10-18 10:03

      go the all blacks

      Bob - 2011-10-18 10:53

      i think the rankings are a bit flattering to SA to be honest. look out next year in the 4 nations aswell ,it might be the wooden spoon for you boys. go the blacks !!

      Theo - 2011-10-18 10:55

      bok. have to agree with you there . Boks should be around the 8 -9 level mark at this stage.

      marco.tomaso - 2011-10-18 11:41

      So the Boks dropped to fourth in the latest IRB Rankings how pathetic is that.Before losing to Austalia in the quater-finals,South Africa had 87 plus rating points whilst Australia had something in the region of 84 points after losing to Ireland.The Boks lose by only two points against the Wallabies in the Quaters and yet the IRB strip us of three rating points as a result of that.France on the otherhand wins by a singular point against Wales of all people and ets bump up above us into third in the rankings. What the hell is wrong with the IRB?It's not just their referees like Lawrence that's ****ed up the whole Organization has gone bonkers by looks of it.

      Jeff - 2011-10-18 12:18

      Bok agreed. The proteas are sliding fast.

      Deon - 2011-10-18 12:55

      Luckily the Proteas do not play Rugby. Well done on Sunday, Dusty and Parnell. The Australians lost at Rugby and Cricket on Sunday.

  • Dale - 2011-10-18 08:25

    Thanks PDV! Thanks a lot, for nothing.

      jacques.steffen - 2011-10-18 08:29

      @Dale, PDV didn't lose the game against Oz, the Boks did.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 08:49

      You can all shoot me now, but I am going to stand up for Piet Snorre. Very few, if any, men of colour would have taken on this job, knowing white rugby supporters are going to crucify him all the way. We are not going to move rugby forward if we continue the racial issue. This is what we have now, it is 2011 and not 1961, so give the man credit where it is due. As Jacques said, the Boks lost, not Piet Snorre.

      Dwain - 2011-10-18 08:57

      if bismarck started we would have won. Div is directly responsible for that. If brussow didn't get injured it wouldn't hav been such a big issue; but he did and we lost the game.

      Dale - 2011-10-18 09:12

      Selections were a major problem in our RWC campaign, and PDV was responsible. How could you leave Bismarck on the bench? Matfield was more than capable of coaching the team! Anyway, I still think he is responsible to a large extent; even though we couldn't do much about the QF loss which could be attributed to the rubbish ref I guess.

      Skinfaxi - 2011-10-18 09:12

      In case some of you haven’t noticed, it’s not just a coach. It’s a coaching team. Did you give Div the credit when we beat the Lions? We should stop looking for a scapegoat. This RWC isn’t worth getting upset about. In the UK a lot of people have stopped watching rugby and have gone back to watching footy. They might even start watching WWF since it’s more credible and runs to less of a script.

      george.traut - 2011-10-18 09:27

      @ Brett. Nobody said anything about his colour. You are the only 1 talking about this sensitive issue. Whether Div is black, white, purple or green it doesn't matter. What matters is he had a horrible time as coach and apart from that sparkling 2009 season, we were mostly uncompetitive during his stint as our coach. Yes, we should have destroyed Australia in the quarter final, but the fact is that we didn't and somebody has to take the fall. That is the South African mentality. We like to see somebody pay for the failures of our national teams. We would probably have forgiven Div if he managed some sort of success during the RWC (like we did with Jake White). Us wanting to see him pay has nothing to do with colour, it has to do with his lack of performance and inability to talk like a sane person during media conferences. Don't you remember Rudolph Straeuli? He was white and he got way more stick that Div will ever get! By the way. I kind of like Divvy now. He made some good choices and gave good comments during the RWC.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 09:35

      @George.........You might have missed the many nasty BEE remarks over the last few weeks on here. Piet Snorre's race keeps popping up here and how if we had this white coach and that white coach we would have done better. I'm pleased you started liking him. If only more people would give the man a chance, we would unite our rugby and do better.

      John - 2011-10-18 10:36

      @Brett. I don't mean to shhoot you down Brett but i can't help but think that it was actually PdV that caused the demise of the Bokke during his tenure. I know he's been rubbished enough and he sounds like a heck of a nice guy, but nice guys don't necessarily make good coaches. Was a little surprised (and I say little) to hear that the players had guy a dominant role in there own training and gameplan. What qualifications do players have to be coaches? Coaching is something that is learnt from experience and not something you can just walk into at this level. PdV's mismanagement of players and the lack of grooming the next tier of young players will be what he will be remembered best for. Blooding new players will always weaken a team but this man had 4 years to do it and all that he has to show for it are 3 or 4 next generation Springboks and alot of older guys ready to retire. To see the Bokke slip to number 5, in my eyes, is a catastrophe and the blame for this can only be squarely put on this man who should've had the balls to tell his team and assistant coaches what he wanted and not cower to their demands.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 10:54

      @John. I won't describe the Boks exactly as "demised". They are far from that. However some of your statements are true, but us South Africans being who we are and what we have got currently to work with, including a coach and our pool of players, I think we did very well. Our team that played the Wallabies was a true inspiration for us as a country, even without Bismarck and Hougaard. But I think this was the real low point of our Rugby. Look at these stats: Under Straeuli the Springboks reached their lowest point in world rugby with record defeats against several countries, most notably: 30–10 to France at the Stade Vélodrome, Marseille 21–6 to Scotland at Murrayfield, Edinburgh 53–3 to England at Twickenham, London 52–16 to New Zealand at Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria

      Grant - 2011-10-18 10:58

      @Brett. I have been reading what I thought were all the comments on this forum's subject. I can't recall a single reference to Pdv's race. Can you provide any links?

      John - 2011-10-18 11:02

      @Brett. Brett, that is my point exactly. You guys did amazingly well with what you had to work with. But it shouldn't have been like this. Your pool of players is larger than NZ's but PdV failed to capitalise on this and that is why the Bokke were always on the back foot and playing catch up rugby.

      luke.enslin - 2011-10-18 11:04

      @Dwain, if my auntie had balls she would have been my uncle!!!

      Brett - 2011-10-18 11:12

      @John. True, and hopefully now that the "tail that wags the dog" has retired, things will improve. Rugby is in this country's genes and over the next 4 years we must have the wisdom to fix our mistakes we made in the past.

      gordon.trevorrow - 2011-10-18 16:56

      No Dale , the ref was THE problem . Not selection

  • Gillbert - 2011-10-18 08:25

    een van die swakste coaches ooit!!!!!!!!!!!!.... how do you rate a good coach? by looking how he found or got the team and then how he left it... he got the springbok team that was ranked number 1 and world champions and he left the team ranked as number 4... disgrace

      Kosie - 2011-10-18 08:42

      exactly, you get a job to fullfill a duty, either by improving it or by maintaining it, not by reducing it, typical bee, he cannot do the job but he must get it because he is black. how many more ofthese cases must we witness before they will realise that you cannot force someone onto a position that he is not capable of doing, somuch money is going lost in companies due to this, but still they do it. this is a nice example and visible to the public.

      Gillbert - 2011-10-18 09:01 check out this link on how to define a great coach

      Johan - 2011-10-18 09:56

      ...and the next coach will be Allister Coetzee... ...from bad to worse... .....he he he he he he ....!!!

      Kosie - 2011-10-18 13:32

      johan is johnny BB

  • Brett - 2011-10-18 08:30

    This is the IRB rankings Boys. Calm down, you all know what happened, so just ignore this.

      Wilbur - 2011-10-18 11:13

      Brett, you get the point - it's a ranking. What's with South Africans that we are so blinded by stats and rankings? The Boks are at the changeover point after a great era, the next coach has a good place to start from - anything he does will lead to improvement. There is a large talent pool of youngsters waiting to be unleashed on the world stage. PDV could only go down or maintain; poison cup.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 11:21

      Yes Wilbur, aren't you also excited about the road ahead? I think we are going to have a BLAST the next 4 years! We will show the world not even a corrupt ref can stop us from being the best!

      Elize - 2011-10-18 11:59

      Well said Brett! I like it! I'm also very excited about the future in SA rugby with talented players like Bismarch, Hougie and Lambie! The future looks promising. AB better look after the No. 1 ranking if you ask my opinion!

  • Brett - 2011-10-18 08:33

    England 5 and Wales 6?????????? Someone is smoking something bad at the IRB!

  • christopher.lourens - 2011-10-18 08:35

    We moved down 1 spot! Its hardly tumbling down the list! Anyway its not the first time we take a dip...

  • heinrich.beukes1 - 2011-10-18 08:42

    Whatever this is nonsense hahaha. We all know in our heart what the real stats are in my opinion we are still number 2

  • Jean-Louis - 2011-10-18 08:45

    Don't worry the bokke wil regain their spot once France loses in the final. The thing is the ranking system only works for the team that are playing. So that is the only reason they past us. Doesnt mean they are a better team.

  • Philip - 2011-10-18 08:54

    The IRB together with Paddy withOut Brain must be very happy! That's what they wanted isn't it?

  • derrick.dawson - 2011-10-18 09:06

    I thought the "mighty" Samoa will be ranked higher than Tonga. This ranking system is bogus.

  • sihleh.mthethwa - 2011-10-18 09:13

    This is only temporary, the Bokke will bounce back.

  • Dan - 2011-10-18 09:27

    Well done Pieter Div. Government will still see his as a huge success in any event and with our "bad" luck - he will remain Bok coach. It can get worse, they can appoint Allistair Coatzee and we all know his grand track record at provincial level. Be it as it may, France doesn't deserve being in the Top 5. They played poor rugby the entire RWC and was almost eliminated before play-offs.

  • shaheen.johnson - 2011-10-18 09:35

    IRB, FIFA, ICC Rankings mean diddly squat.

      Bok - 2011-10-18 09:38

      You are in your rightful position now sliding down the table very fast

  • chester.wandsworth - 2011-10-18 09:42

    the only white player that truly supported p divy was Smit, and HE was only looking out for himself. the problem I have is that p divvy listened too much to criticism and did not transform the team - but then again, the whole rugby community had it in for him from day 1, so he had it really hard. what ppl fail to realise is that lack of support in the initial stages IS the determining factor in many ppl careers, and paves the way. jumping on and supporting later is useless.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 09:53

      Absolutely Chester. I don't want to get into the Smit debate this morning, but what you have said is so true. I'm not a Bulls supporter, but Victor would have been a far better captain. This World Cup has just proven to me what I said all along about can only be a selfish man that has one World Cup behind his name, that wants another one. If he had a shred of class, he would have stood back for Victor this time round.

      Elize - 2011-10-18 11:53

      Well said Chester. I also believe that support plays a HUGE role in victory! Our national sides (SB and Proteas) must have the worst supporters ever! If they win, we all love them, if they lose majority of supporters want to crucify and criticise! Quite disturbing.....

  • Martin - 2011-10-18 09:54

    Thanks DIV! RIP!!!

  • edrich.hollis - 2011-10-18 10:32

    dont think the boks deserve to be down there since we're the only team capable of beating nz in nz anywayz.. we played like champs with best defense in the wc, we'll prove them wrong in the next one.. mite as well put bryce lawrenson at number 2 on the rankings.

      Alan - 2011-10-18 10:49

      Well said!! The rankings are a farce apart from All Blacks ranking!! France did not even play Australia or SA in the world cup! And they lost to Tonga!! Should be 1. NZ 2. SA 3. Australia 4. France. 5. Wales.6. Ireland 7. England

      Bok - 2011-10-19 06:53

      You what? your joking you have to score points to win games. The only team you did that effectively against was a minnow. Your record against the All Blacks is very poor, and getting worse by the year. You are going backwards in rugby. When did you last win, an under 20 or under 21 tournament. Yes you have got it along time ago

  • Christo du Plessis - 2011-10-18 10:36

    Another shocking consequence of the Bryce Lawrence debacle!!!

  • Hermanus - 2011-10-18 10:44

    hey Bok, speel die proteas nie krieket nie??

      Johan - 2011-10-18 11:48

      ...die Springbok is met die Protea vervang... ......kan julle nie sien nie...???

  • Elize - 2011-10-18 11:14

    Something I thought about over the weekend (although I have moved past this and look forward to what the the future for SA rugby has in store).... BL officiated the Aus vs IRE game. IMHO the "cheating" started in that game already. If Aus ended 1st on their log and IRE 2nd, SA would have played Ireland and it would have been difficult to "cheat" a SA vs IRE game. Wales would have killed Aus anyway! You never know. Just a thought

      Brett - 2011-10-18 11:31

      Elize, with the next World Cup, we should know when they announce the pools, which ref is reffing which game.We don't ever want the refs in the World Cup to ever be the main focus again. A lot of us missed out on amazing rugby because we all had our eyes on the ref. I had to watch games over and over to actually see the tactics and forget about the ref.

      malherbegerhard - 2011-10-18 23:34

      re your earlier comment on how hard w e are on our team-go check out the public's response against soem of their key players in Aus after the loss.Quade cooper and will genia will remain in my mind as the biggest disappointments of the tournament- only amateurs panic the way Quade did and goodness, was Will predictable in his kicks and slow to get the ball to the backline.

  • Robs - 2011-10-18 11:23

    How much do you move. Is it just a win or does the point difference also count. If All Blacks beat the French will the French move down to below us again

      Brett - 2011-10-18 11:35

      Robs, it is the IRB we are talking about here. We don't know from one day to the next which rules will be enforced and which not. I think they sit at night after a few bottles of Scotch and decide what goes and what doesn't.

  • marco.tomaso - 2011-10-18 11:41

    So the Boks dropped to fourth in the latest IRB Rankings how pathetic is that.Before losing to Austalia in the quater-finals,South Africa had 87 plus rating points whilst Australia had something in the region of 84 points after losing to Ireland.The Boks lose by only two points against the Wallabies in the Quaters and yet the IRB strip us of three rating points as a result of that.France on the otherhand wins by a singular point against Wales of all people and ets bump up above us into third in the rankings. What the hell is wrong with the IRB?It's not just their referees like Lawrence that's ****ed up the whole Organization has gone bonkers by looks of it.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 11:45

      LOL LOL Marco..............chill my Brother. I just love reading your postings. It is great to have fellow supporters like you!!!!!!!!!!

      Skinfaxi - 2011-10-18 12:28

      IRB stands for Irrespective of the Rule Book.

  • werner.smidt - 2011-10-18 11:51

    What is this? I don't even . . .

  • Nkutist - 2011-10-18 12:15

    Haha this is quite funny to read... Guys its a world cup, anything can happen and the curse lives on forever. We won the last one and we lost this one it happens.... Div was a loud mouth but he tried and he selected a team that he thought could do it. The team was old, the teams we played were tough. I'm just glad that we went down fighting in the end!!! We just got to build a new team that can win the next one!!!

      Brett - 2011-10-18 12:33

      That is the spirit Nkutist! We have now seen there is nothing that beats youth, like the Welsh to use just one example.

      Nkutist - 2011-10-18 13:10

      Exactly Brett Taking a old team to a tournament is always risky. I mean to think the guys could maintain that form for 4years is crazy... World Cups are about risk and who has luck on their side, thats i every sport!!! New Zealand haven't won it for hom long now? Its not like we were humiliated, we lost by 2 points to the aussies who've had a pretty good season!!

  • wayne.nkuna - 2011-10-18 12:27

    i said it befor, france will win by 8..........

  • Kris - 2011-10-18 12:39

    lol, bob, bok, johan, all the same person trolling.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 12:49

      Yes Kris. And always without a picture. But it is entertaining none the less. How are you today?

  • Marcelo - 2011-10-18 12:41

    We all know that France is probably the most unpredictable team in World Rugby which makes France the most dangerous team. On a good day, the French can easily run riot against the best teams because it did happen several times already and by the same token on a bad day they can play the worst rugby. I reckon the All Blacks will beat the French, unless the French wake up and get up on the right side of their beds and if that happens, the All Blacks will end up choking again, however I believe it's very unlikely. After the World Cup is all over and the dust is settled, the Sprinboks will go through a rebuilding phase with new blood coming through. I strongly believe that the Springboks will bounce back as they are a Rugby Powerhouse nation. I also believe Argentina's Los Pumas will get better by playing in the Four Nations next year. I was quite impressed by Los Pumas's structured and organaised defence facing off waves of attacks upon attacks launched by the All Blacks up until the 69th minute when Los Pumas's defence gave in. Los Pumas managed to score a try of their own though, despite the fact that Los Pumas's squad consists of nearly 50% amateur. That said, Argentinian rugby, having been blatantly ignored for years on end by the IRB, (which has been far worse than Bryce Lawrence's performance as a ref), will improve their game by being drafted into the Four Nations from next year, and consequently Los Pumas will move up places in the IRB rankings.

      Brett - 2011-10-18 12:54

      Today I agree with every word you say Marcelo. It would be great for the Pumas to move up the ranks. I'm so sick of this NZ vs OZ thing and it is about time both of them are shown a thing or two.

      Marcelo - 2011-10-18 14:10

      Brett. I've been watching rugby for a long time now and to be honest with you I'm still confused with the rules regarding the rucks and the breakdowns. There's too much flipping room for interpretation and I don't have the foggest idea what goes on when I see a pile of players trying to fight for the ball at the ruck. Imagine, if the IRB leaves the ruck and breakdown rules to be "interpreted" by a ref with some questions marks concerning his performance (Bryce Lawrence), then I'm afraid the outcome will be the Wallabies-Springboks game. Having said that, some rules should be rewritten by the IRB to make them much easier to understand, so that they are clear-cut. Another thing I would like to add is the fact that the reason why Los Pumas did so well in 2007, was that they were pissed off with the IRB decision making body of being ignored for many years. After Los Pumas beat the French during the opening game and afterwards during the post-match interview, an angry Augustin Pichot said to the reporter: "We do exist". Those words said it all. Coming back to Bryce Lawrence's performance, well, I know I'm being harsh with my statements as far as South Africans fans are concerned but the irony is that I'm one of those Springboks fans who blurted out "that son of a gun" at the ref when the match was over. I guess the Springboks shouldn't forget what happened on that fateful day. If a bunch of angry Pumas did it in 2007, I'm sure an angry bunch of Springboks will do it better.

  • rusty.jarmain - 2011-10-18 13:13

    Something seems wrong when international ratings are determined on comparative scores alone, with no account taken of game statistics, incompetent or blatantly biassed refereeing or crippling of teams through injury to key players. In a game where the result can pivot on the success or failure of a kick into the teeth of a howling gale or whether or not the sideline was touched in the scoring of a brilliant try, what appears on the scoreboard at the final whistle should be of lesser importance in the determination of relative strengths and competence. As things stand, one can only suspect that the administrators in the IRB offices are either utterly unimaginative or that they have little if any understanding of the run of play.

  • John - 2011-10-18 17:28

    Whilst \I do agree there was some wrong doing during the Oz/ZA match, my view remains as follows. This is a professional sport, not the hooligan beer drinking good for little else sport it used to be. Arguably, there was also an over reaction during the Wales/FRance match. The welsh made it clear from the word go but accepted the verdict. We, as usual, make total idiots out of ourselves crying foul play over something that has happened and is over. It's not the only mis jusgement in sports history, truyst me. Look at the England Germany final in the 55's. anyway. \Be that as it may. I am no boffin in rugby rules. If I was, I'd probably be a referee. Instead of sitting watching a repeat, repeat, repeat and then having a great big say, this referee had to make a decision on the spot.noon3e on air really questioned anything at the time. I have been told there were thirteen possible penalties overlooked before the first one was granted. Were there not enough professional players on the field to point this out. If they have a genuine point, they are entitled to vent it, you know. So shut up, eat your misplaced ego and lets hope we do better next time.

  • Barry - 2011-10-18 20:36

    Thank you Bryce.

  • jacques.ackermann - 2011-10-18 23:18

    the honest truth is that the whole RWC was planned from the start. from our pools to the knockouts. is it not strange that we always are drawn into a strong group come the pool stages ???. NZ has been slowly but surely over the years changing IRB into suiting there style and goals. one can even look at the new ELV's. dont you find it strange how the new rules suites there more open ball attacking style of play that only NZ can play 100%. something stinks to high heaven. even the sanzar hearings for player infringements are a farce. our players get much bugger bans and other incidents like a cooper knee to mccaw just gets dismissed. our rugby admin people needs to grow a pair of balls and man up and sort this out. i have been calling for a long time that south africa pulls out of its sanzar aggreement and joins the NH teams. bigger input and higher potential for income. we have anyhow so much expats over there and it will make it a lot easier to keep our players in our teams and then we can have a bigger cut of the commercial rights thus giving out players bigger paychecks. win win situation. we can still be part of the tri nations thus we can have the best of both worlds. but this current situation is not working sorry to say. we are being shafted like no other and we dont seem to do anything about it.

      lindsay.amner - 2011-10-19 03:10

      Jacques you're going to have to get real about the rule tweaks. It's not NZ changing the rules, it's the IRB recognising that they have to have an attractive product to sell therefore they cannot continue with the style of rugby that prevailed in 2007. This is not strange, it's a commercial reality. It just happens that SA teams do not normally play attractive rugby and NZ teams often do. SA teams should start to recognise this and move with the times rather than try to play a style which is four years out of date. Also interesting to see people on here still going on about the ref in the QF. Reality is that he didn't penalise SA out of the game, he simply allowed some dodgy stuff to happen. What you're all saying is that you wanted the ref to help your team and are complaining because he didn't. A good enough team would still have won without the ref's help. Reality is that the Boks were not good enough on the day, were not able to adjust to the ref's interpretations and therefore were deservedly eliminated.

  • Phil - 2011-10-19 12:52

    Sometimes I wonder about the thought processes of my fellow countrymen. Reading many of the comments below , it is as if people beleive the Boks DESERVED to win the world cup but were only stopped by one man ..Bryce. How many times have we beaten Australia in the last 7 matches it TWICE ? We finished stone LAST in the Tri-Nations We play dinosaur rugby Our "coach" deliberately left the best hooker in the world ...and one of the most talented backs ..on the bloody BENCH for most of the time. Yet somehow according to the slow thinkers , we deserved to win the world cup but were only stopped by one "corrupt" individual. Get real okes ....we got as far as we deserved to get ...and we stuffed it all up.

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