Most blacks during Div's reign

2012-05-22 11:45

Parliament - South African rugby included the highest number of black Springboks in match 22s during former coach Peter de Villiers's tenure, parliament's portfolio committee on sport heard on Tuesday.

According to a presentation to the committee by a high level SA Rugby Union (SARU) delegation, rugby's governing body, a total of 35 black Boks were selected in 2008 when De Villiers took over from 2007 Rugby World Cup-winning coach Jake White.

The most black players donning the green and gold during White's tenure was 28, in the 2006 season.

The number dropped to 23 last year.

Still, black representation in Springbok teams was greater than in all other forms of the professional game other than in the Vodacom Cup, the committee was told.

De Villiers, South Africa's first black Bok coach, was replaced by Heyneke Meyer earlier this year after failing to retain the World Cup last year.

It was reported earlier that Sport Minister Fikile Mbalula was set to appoint De Villiers to lead the development of rugby at school level, one of his department's new priority areas.


  • wayne.jones.1422 - 2012-05-22 12:05

    And the World Cup is where again.....

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-22 12:33

      True but this is a no story. It stands to reason that more years after segregation more black players would be good enough. This is a no brainer. In 10 years time, when all the whites have left and we have a white coach like Banana Banana they can say that the team is 100% black and picked by an Australian former Rabbit Farmer now head coach.

      Jason - 2012-05-22 12:57

      It will be interesting to see if the brumbies win the super 15 this year.

      Thobani - 2012-05-22 12:58

      So you saying we didn't retain the WC cos there were too many blacks???

      Alan - 2012-05-22 13:43

      WHO CARES???? Jeeez - everything in this country is blacks vs whites! NEWS24 - we dont care!!!!! The only thing that still drives racism in this country is the ANC - they need it, to survive. For the rest of us - let's move on!!

  • John - 2012-05-22 12:13

    Not because of Quotas. Div selected players he wanted. I don't think he was ever pressured into selecting quotas. Besides. John Smit was the only quota in our RWC squad and he was white. Fact of the matter is: Black players are doing better and better and that's why more of them keeps making the Bok squad.

      gordon.turner.37 - 2012-05-22 12:15

      100% John. The problem remains getting players to the top end of provicial rugby to get picked. Counting Boks is a wasted exercise

      Ruan - 2012-05-22 14:27

      I agree with you.

      Grant - 2012-05-22 14:27

      not quite 100%. Yes - we have more and more GREAT black players - some of whom (like Mvovo) still battle to get in because of the class that is already there (Habana and Peterson). But lets face it - selections like Kirschner, and Januarie over a truckload of better players, was based on the best BLACK player available at the time, and done in order to boost the quota's. I really wish we could just enjoy the rugby, and watch the BEST play. I have and will support black and white players equally - provided they are the best!

      deanmpeters - 2012-05-23 07:48

      Grantcallaway has got it spot on. Let's pick the best players at all times and ensure we have a winning team regardless of race. We can't look for transformation at Springbok level. Let's develop the sport (all sports in fact) in our schools and clubs. The best players will emerge at the top. Heyneke Mayer is adopting a more scientific approach to his selection of players. We are now in the professional era where your performance is measured by meters gained, tackles made, etc etc. Not on the basis of your skintone.

      ndabenhle.ngubane - 2012-05-23 09:03

      Cool comment

  • Schalk - 2012-05-22 12:19

    So in actual fact it was the ANC that costed us title at RWC 2011? We dont care even if they are pink - BUT ALWAYS SELECT PLAYERS ON MERIT, and by keeping to a quota supplied to him by goverment didnt make him a good coach - we still didnt win the RWC...

      Anele - 2012-05-22 13:48

      I didnt know Bryce Lawrence was an ANC member

      Kamohelo - 2012-05-22 17:19

      Who were the quota players in the game against Australia? Habana, Pietersen, or Steenkamp. And were they selected by the ANC?

      David - 2012-05-22 17:45

      Hahaha ANele! Excellent joke. you just made my day laughing ;-)

  • shauns4700 - 2012-05-22 12:22

    Just a quick thing, why is it that when black people say they need more black players to represent the springboks all is fine. And on the other hand when white people say they want more white players the are rasist???? Great to stay in South Africa!

      andre.rabie3 - 2012-05-22 16:20

      And Explain to me why there are nun white players in the soccer side???? with the world cup, one white player was selected, but he sat on the bench the entire tournemant, do u want to tell me there are NO white people that can play soccer at that level, Just wondering about quatas etc

  • Fussed - 2012-05-22 12:26

    You know nothing div. You are a hasbeen, just shutup and wake up all you were was a token there and not a good one at that either

      Brendon Mercy Vd Merwe - 2012-05-22 13:26

      @Fussed: buy Div's book before pointing fingers...

      shooshyu.tu - 2012-05-22 20:00

      @Brendon why does Fussed need to buy the book in order to point fingers - is this the cost of finger pointing now?

  • Chriskoi1 - 2012-05-22 12:27

    Ag asseblief tog kan julle nie die swart en wit ding uit die samelewing uit haal en die fo!@##$%^&n poletiek uit rugby en al die sport wat in Suid Afrika gespeel word .As n' speler die beste is dan kan hy mos speel vir sy land en ek bedoel n Suid Afrikaner nie speler van Zim af nie.En die spelers wat oorsee gaan speel het moet sommer daar bly en ook emmigreer want ons het hulle nie nodig nie ondersteun liewers ons spelers wat hier is

  • Niel - 2012-05-22 12:33

    since when is pieter de villiers black? And these \black\ players, does it include gio aplon? Jp pietersen? Ashley johnnson? Elton jantjes? Bjorn basson? Brian habana? So clearly our \rainbow\ nation only has 2 nationalities.

      legndkilla - 2012-05-22 13:16

      @neil, they dont know what they talkin about anymore cos even the chinese people in our country are classified as blacks, and i for one dnt enjoy being a black when im a proud coloured and if u ask any of the players im sure they would share the same sentiment .... imho

      Niel - 2012-05-22 13:21


      Carl - 2012-05-22 13:40

      its not black, white, colourd or even chinese....its white or non-white

      Kamohelo - 2012-05-22 17:21

      white and black are not nationalities. hahahaha. you dim wit.

  • Luke - 2012-05-22 12:36

    Thats why in having a team from the EC more talented africans will come through the system on merit. Give the youngsters players and a team to aspire to

      Niel - 2012-05-22 12:46

      Ok but who's going to aspire to end last?

      Brendon - 2012-05-22 13:22

      EP Kings cannot even make A division currie cup and you hinting on a super 15 inclusion please the Lion thumped the Kings in a friendly our best teams are already doing good development for the sport with white, black and coloured.

      Luke - 2012-05-22 14:12

      @ Brendon, lets see if the Kings make it to the Currie Cup at the end of this season, also when did the Lions play the EP Kings?? cant remember seeing that anywhere. The EP Kings did play the Bulls/Sharks/Stormers in Feb By the way the Southern Kings will be represented by 3 regions in the Super 15, lets not forget a purse of over R100m should buy them a few key players.. Much like what is happening happening at the Rebels in OZ, beat the Crusaders 2 weeks ago and the Force last w-end. It's amazing what money can do in the professional era

      Shona - 2012-05-22 18:58

      Kings played Lions on 14th of Feb (I think) and Lions won 88-0. Kings will probably be in Currie Cup this year only cos they need some experience before playing Super Rugby next year. If u can't even prove yourself in Vodacom Cup against "B teams" then how u going to play against Kiwi's etc? Currie Cup is much harder than Vodacom Cup so lets just see how they do then.

      Anton - 2012-05-23 19:52

      @luke you must be the real Mr Puke Watson

  • BUKLAMBIE - 2012-05-22 12:38


      Sizwe Mkhaliphi - 2012-05-22 13:00

      Nobody is opposed to young black players being selected on merit alone but it becomes a race issue when deserving young black players are overlooked from high school to provincial rugby and a white lesser deserving player is recruited to the Sharks, Bulls etc. The Springbok jersey becomes nothing but a pipe dream to such players. I will never support SA Rugby until I can see a decent representation of all deserving players on the field on merit.

      Niel - 2012-05-22 13:13

      That makes no sense sizwe, why would they overlook a good black player? That's a perception based on opinion. The big unions r strong because of their winnig culture and they would do anything to keep that going so why would they overlook good players?

      adrien.mcguire - 2012-05-22 13:34

      @ sizwe I don't know any supporters of the game ( I am talking about real supporters) who care what colour the players are. They just want to watch good rugby and support a winning team. If you want rugby to end up like soccer, then continue to let politics and incompetant people get involved. We have a habit of bringing things down to the lowest common denominator, instead of striving to be the best. Rugby teams fall over themselves to recruit the best players, their financial sucess is dependant on it. They will choose the best, no matter the colour.

      Niel - 2012-05-22 13:49

      Ok but none of the bafana players spoke spanish and they were in pereras team? I also wouldn't choose people that can't understand me cuz how are u suppose to coach them?

      boltonbarry - 2012-05-22 16:11

      Sizwe and Axolile. I hear what you are saying and understand. One thing you have to understand about the White African especially the typical stereotypical Afrikaans speaking ones is that they will discriminate against their own skin color for money and status. But point that out to them. They really don't like that. @ Niels second comment. I hear what you are saying on the language thing but you also can't overlook someone of merit simply cause you don't understand one another. Get a translator.

      Niel - 2012-05-22 17:35

      Barry, the point of my 2nd comment is that people need to stop making excuses for why they didn't accomplish something. There are hundreds of thousands of rugby players in this country and all of them want to be springboks, its impossible to make that happen so if it doesn't work out for you don't blame skin color or education or language. Because while u sit and ponder up excuses, others are getting the job done. Agree with your afrikaans statement, I am a proud afrikaans man and I'm embarrased at how we do step on each other for personal gain, but that happens in all cultures. Hence politicians getting richer and the country getting poorer

      maree.bester - 2012-05-23 08:04

      BUKLAMBIE - yes they have to but will never be able to as long as our goverment keeps on interfering. unfortunately it will always put that excuse the pun black clowd over players careers such as, Bryan Habana at one point the best wing in the world, JP Pietersen also a house hold name, BEAST, CHESTER WILLIAMS ETC. it is shocking as these guys are and were brilliant rugby players. just as good and in most cases better then the white players. fully deserving of making their places. but there are players that should most likely not have been up there.

  • phathuchicos - 2012-05-22 13:05

    Do we need a rocket scientist to explain that SA black people arent good at rugby and so do our whites not good at soccer, its just a few exceptions that can cross that barrier. so why ruin the quality of a game with colour...talent matters.

      Rob - 2012-05-22 13:18

      Azanian-Whites not good @ soccer !!!! Bafana has been a disgrace to the nation for many years now. The old white professional league in the sixties & seventies produced fantastic local talent.Young white males have not proceeded with their careers in what is a black dominated sport which really does not welcome whites into its ranks very easily. The majority of the players in the league are bloody useless with no knowledge of football. Please man. No top European clubs have any desire to sign these so called " stars " on.

      dawnay.sameuls - 2012-05-22 13:39

      what a load of crap if ur athletic then u can excel in any sport if u committed race is not an issue as long as u love what u do

      Sango - 2012-05-22 14:01

      rob you know how to comment sh**t i give it to you.

      phathuchicos - 2012-05-22 14:07

      rob which South African theoretical white team are you talking about? and when did they do good...coz all I can remember SA was under sanctions forever backwards...

      phathuchicos - 2012-05-22 14:08

      rob...tell me any white soccer player name signed in European team.

      Sango - 2012-05-22 14:23

      rob which soccer team those talented white male you talking about played for?because from what i know there was not even proper structure for soccer during those day. Yes the was a league but it was not proper and it was black dominated. Rob where you awake when you where commenting? Or you just made this story up.

      Dirk - 2012-05-22 14:47

      Well there were those white-only vs black only bull-scheiBe that went down in the 70’s – Remember a TV docu, white team won all the games. So there you go... Reference here: @ Aza – Today we have no sanctions and look at how backwards everything is going now. Just giving the facts... I hate this BS going on at the moment...

      Dirk - 2012-05-22 14:51

      Dawnay, you got this right! As long as you love what you do, all that matters.

      Rob - 2012-05-22 15:09

      Azanian / Sango. Talented White footballers. Colin Viljoen, Dereck Smethhurst, The Wegerley brothers from Arcadia Shepherds, Bruce Grobelaar ( Zimb yes-But from Durban City to Liverpool, Gary Baily, Craig Johnstone ( Joberg to Aust then Liverpool ). Those were the days of Highlands Park, Durban City, Durban United, Powerlines, Wits University, Maritzburg united. 20,000 @ the old Kingsmead on a friday night & Sunday Afternoon. Loads of English pro's playing in the league, some over the hill,but nevertheless, one learnt from these pros. No but your little world consists of Pirates & Chiefs & Jomo Sono !

      Shona - 2012-05-22 19:15

      Using our soccer team is a very good example...u say only blacks can play soccer then why haven't they been any good. They always lose and never qualify for any comps. If SA wasn't hosting World Cup 2010 then Bafana wouldn't have been in it. I think people need to be given a chance whether they black or white. My brother always only played soccer...he started when he was 3 years old. He played league and school and made Natal every year at school and captained the side too. As he got older he was told bythe coaches etc that he should really think if he wants to carry on with soccer cos he wouldn't be given a chance in "adult" soccer. He then just played (well sat on the bench) for Manning Rangers for a short while before starting his own indoor team. Soccer is unfair in this country and now they wanting to turn rugby the same way

  • Jason - 2012-05-22 13:09

    @Thobani, I think we could of won it with Jake white as the coach, I think Peter D is a good coach but Jake White is a great coach. I honestly believe the black talent in the bok team deserve to be there, well 90% of them anyways. I also think the beast is one of the most loved players by all South Africans.

  • Sportmal - 2012-05-22 13:18

    I'm thinking these statistics are being read out of context. I don't mind SARU or the government keeping track of black players in the spingbok squad from year to year, they set a goal to develop black rugby players in this country and obviously they have to keep track of these statistics to see whether they are making progress. Rather blame the journo/writer who put it in this context (as if to say we need a black coach to promote black players).

  • grant.butler.104 - 2012-05-22 13:28

    I so look forward to the day when we are just seen as South Africans.....truly non racial and not ever defined by pigmentation ever again....

      Alan - 2012-05-22 13:59

      yeah - me too! It's like the "Animal Farm" pigmentation is getting out of hand!

  • Jacques - 2012-05-22 13:31

    Dit maak nie saak hoeveel swart, bruin of wit spelers daar is nie. Solank elke speler ongeag sy ras op SUIWER meriete gekies word. En enige Suid Afriner sal vir 80% bruin en swart span support as hul wen en die beste in hul posisies is.

  • Brent - 2012-05-22 13:55

    pieter devilliers, thanks for being our couch and thanks for trying your best - i salute you. as for some idiots out there that cant see beyond the colour line f off. i have never seen this much attack and disrespect of a national coach who was actually trying his best. what i saw was a man that didnt devide his team, had their respect and full loyalty. what i saw in the wc was a team that was really coming together in a way that would retain the wc - if it wasnt for some "weird" decisions that only seemed to affect ausies and to a greater deat rsa. if there was affirmative action - it was based on old white players like smit and matfield. but this guy did well. so show some respect.

      Fred - 2012-05-22 23:08

      Well, just shows you, politics and sport don't mix. You look at politics, others look at sport. Praising someone in a professional position for doing his best, rather then achieving his goal, show that you accept mediocrity. We are all thankfull that Heyneke Meyer will get our rugby on track. Maybe ol' divvie made politically sound selections, but ultimately he lost us the wc. Full stop! No respect for failure, since I don't praise mediocrity.

  • phathuchicos - 2012-05-22 14:10

    Black is the new gold bay-bayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Luke - 2012-05-22 14:17

    If you are good enough to make any of the Super Rugby teams you are good enough to represent the Boks no matter what colour you are. I'm over colour been used as an excuse. It's 2012 not 1982.

  • lmapheto - 2012-05-22 14:23

    I bet none of you are playing sport...Workforce diversity says it all if you could all read it with an open mind, you will realise that it’s purely normal for anyone to form a click with similarities and it can’t be all that bad...i am from Ga-Mphahlele and if i coach any sports will definitely see a Mphahlele born player one way or the other...its there in soccer and other sports disciplines. Please stop blowing things out of proportion just because you can. Some people need the internet for better use than your hateful mouths.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-05-22 21:35

      After reading all comment, you are the one that will get my thumbs up. Humans have that tendency, but it seams most coaches do not give in too much to it. I just hope they will refrain from it and take the best guys. I want us to be the best we can. Kick some buts.

  • Ruan - 2012-05-22 14:26

    SO WHAT!!!

  • Tee - 2012-05-22 15:15

    Am wooried of 100% bafana bafana. i need Clive Barker's 1994-1996 successful fusion again.

  • Raymond - 2012-05-22 21:18

    Jobs for pals.Another disaster on the horizon

  • Fred - 2012-05-22 23:11

    Let's leave our mistakes in the past and focus on a bright future under Heyneke Meyer! He will return the Springbok to it's rightful place in world rugby!

  • Tosan - 2012-05-23 00:54

    I wonder how many folks realize how long it takes mentalities to shift. It is really interesting that the benefit of the doubt is a privilege that everyone wants but no one wants to give. We assume that the selection and development process is fair at people's word.... but not the criticisms of it??? Why should black players trust selectors who don't respect them as equal human beings off the pitch (not saying all of them, but it would be very naive to say this issue does not exist)? Ignoring racism does not improve it, or make it go away. People seem to fear acknowledging it even exists, which is childish. The only way trust will build is both sides acknowledging the experience of the other and finding common ground. That is a very very long process. At the very least as long as it was perpetuated.

  • Tosan - 2012-05-23 01:09

    I wonder how many black players faced resentment from coaches, selectors, being forced to a quota system. I'm imagining someone who thought very little of black people would not simply change their opinion of black people simply because of the quota. Those players probably went through hell

  • jimi.harrison.7 - 2012-05-23 06:13

    That is the reason why we lost the world cup........

  • Slickvic.August - 2012-05-23 07:11

    I say bugger the Quota!!!!!! Would you fly in a plane with a captain who doesnt know how to fly, would you like to have a doctor perform surgery on you that failed his exams and paid for a license, The ANC needs to realise that in order to get more black faces in to rugby they need to pay more attention to the public schools as well and not just to the private schools, where they are the only one's able to play Craven Week.

  • Jacques - 2012-05-23 08:03

    Ja en waars die wereld beker...?

  • ndabenhle.ngubane - 2012-05-23 09:08

    I like these types of debates as long as they are not racist... Its always good to know what South Africans are thinking.

  • Marius - 2012-05-23 09:19

    This is only 1 of the reasons i will never ever til the day i die never support SA RUGBY.

  • Marius - 2012-05-23 09:20

    This is only 1 of the reasons i will never ever til the day i die never support SA RUGBY.

  • Westvaal - 2012-05-23 12:30

    How many whites are playing for Bafana Bafana? Maybe we should get a white coach then?

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