All Blacks 'fatigued'

2012-12-03 07:44

Wellington - New Zealand rugby pundits on Monday blamed tiredness at the end of a long season for the All Blacks' shock loss to England, also suggesting over-confidence contributed to the defeat.

Media were full of praise for England after they ended the world champions' 20-Test winning sequence with a famous 38-21 victory at Twickenham, comparing them to Martin Johnson's 2003 Rugby World Cup winners.

"England didn't just ambush the No.1 side in the game at Twickenham... they ambushed the rugby world," former All Black half-back Justin Marshall wrote in the Dominion Post.

The New Zealand Herald pointed out it was England's biggest win over the All Blacks, surpassing a 13-0 result in 1936, and the New Zealanders' second heaviest defeat ever, after a 28-7 loss to Australia in 1999.

While skipper Richie McCaw said after the game that a stomach bug in the tourists' camp had not affected his team, the Herald's Wynne Gray said it could not be ignored when searching for reasons behind the lacklustre display.

"The lack of sting from the start suggested illness which swept the team during the week had a severe impact," he wrote.

"If the team wasn't affected by illness, it was some lesson from England... they had a hunger that has not been apparent since the World Cup-winning group from 2003."

Former All Blacks captain Stu Wilson said New Zealand had "nothing in the tank" in the final Test of a draining season.

"It was just one too far for our boys, who got second," he told Radio New Zealand. "They were beaten by a very good side, a very young side, I might add, and we're looking a bit old and weary."

In the lead-up to the game, New Zealand were touted as possibly one of the greatest rugby sides ever and Fairfax Media correspondent Toby Robson said some players had bought into the hype, to the frustration of coach Steve Hansen.

"Hansen is big on staying grounded, but his players were inflated with helium in the buildup to their final Test of the season," he wrote. "His players got ahead of themselves and paid the price."

Marshall dismissed suggestions illness and fatigue were behind the loss, saying the tourists were simply beaten by a better team.

"The All Blacks were out-thought, more than anything. England came with a game plan that we simply didn't think they could deliver," he wrote. "Maybe they even surprised themselves."

After handing out rugby lessons to opponents for 20 straight Tests, Marshall said the New Zealanders had now been given one by England and rookie players who had until now only tasted success with the All Blacks should "suck it up".

"The next major challenge in this part of the world will come in the 2015 World Cup and the likes of (Israel) Dagg, (Julian) Savea, (Sam) Whitelock and Aaron Smith will now know the sort of challenges they'll be up against," he said.


  • lionel.kemm.9 - 2012-12-03 07:48

    Cr@p,they were outplayed by the Poms and were k-k.Just shows if you put pressure on them what happens....was a great game to watch...well done England.

      jco.vanrooyen - 2012-12-03 08:31

      England out class the AB's! You do not need to be rocket scientist to work that out. Some weeks ago a second stringer OZ team also out class them. AB's were lucky to draw that test! Bok supporter for ever!

      sean.bagley.50 - 2012-12-03 10:03

      To be fair the All Blacks did look exhausted and so were the Boks and the Wallabies in the whole of the November tests.Jaded as we and the Wallabies were we still had just enough in our collective tanks to not lose against 2nd rate Six Nation opposition such as the Poms.Contrary to what some pundits are saying in view of this result,there is still a huge gulf in class between the Southern Hemisphere's big 3 and rest of the rugby fraternity.Why is that? It took England 9 years to beat the All Blacks and it also took a performance of a life time by them to beat the All Blacks.If they were so much better than the Southern Hemisphere Rugby giants then why does it always take extraordinary guts and fortitude by them to beat any of us Southerners?One victory in 10 years is not consistency now is it although it was very well deserved on the day? Oh and by the way I like this comment made above:"Hansen....players were inflated with helium in the buildup to their final Test of the season" So it's not just PDV that has helium up his a***e to build up his ego,the All Blacks does so aswell!!!!!

      Flemstone - 2012-12-03 11:16

      Based on winning margins we've seen in the past 8 years, where are you seeing this massive gulf? South Africa beat England by 1 point and drew at home. Where's the gulf? Australia pipped Wales right at the very end. I can give you many more examples. Argentina were also holding their own against the big 3. SA only just beat Wales in the WC. Huge gulf, prove it.

      sean.bagley.50 - 2012-12-03 11:46

      @Flemstone the fool.Here choke on this: South Africa 36 England 0 -RWC 2007 Australia 59 France 16 -November test 2010 New Zealand 60 Ireland 0 -June test 2012 I can give your sorry a**e a lot more examples,but I won't as you just an attention seeking troll on this forum.So do yourself a favour and get lost from off these pages I beg of you.

      Flemstone - 2012-12-03 12:11

      2007 WC England beat Australia. France beat NZ. Massive gulf hey? 2011 WC. NZ beat France by one point. Australia beat Wales by 3. Where is this huge gulf? They're scraping wins against NH sides. Sure you can find examples where any team got thumped by any country. You've got to prove this huge gulf to me. You're talking as if the NH teams have never even come close, nevermind beat SH teams. Do you accept the fact that NH teams have in fact beaten SH teams? And do you also accept that they've had plenty of close matches in the last decade? If you do accept this, then please tell me where the huge gulf is?

      simone.dechandra.7 - 2012-12-03 15:48

      world cups: NORTHERN HEMISPHERE - 1 SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE - 6 gulf = evident

      Flemstone - 2012-12-03 17:13

      "there is still a huge gulf in class between the Southern Hemisphere's big 3 and rest of the rugby fraternity.Why is that? " This is the claim. That there is presently a huge gulf between the two hemisphere's. The gulf has been getting smaller every year, for the past decade. Do you understand Simone? There's been a NH team in the WC final since 1999. Sure they've only won it once. But where is this huge gulf if they keep making the final? I can go into greater detail and give examples of NH teams making the quarters and semi's if you like? Hopefully you get the picture on your own?

      simone.dechandra.7 - 2012-12-03 19:51

      like i said NH - 1.....SH - 6 Bam. shut up

      simone.dechandra.7 - 2012-12-03 19:53

      stats dont lie. that is the claim from the cape cabal all the time. unless it is contrary to what a cape cabalian says. then stats mean nothing

      ryan.cannon.12 - 2012-12-04 02:44

      This is the claim. That there is presently a huge gulf between the two hemisphere's. The gulf has been getting smaller every year, for the past decade. Do you understand Simone? There's been a NH team in the WC final since 1999. Sure they've only won it once. But where is this huge gulf if they keep making the final? I can go into greater detail and give examples of NH teams making the quarters and semi's if you like? Hopefully you get the picture on your own? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH WC wins to South 6 North 1 And you say " look at the North making the finals" Well, when there are only ever max 8 teams that truly have a chance at the WC, and 5 of those are from the North, ITS BLOODY LIKELY THEY WILL BE IN THE FINALS considering that its quite likely that one of the southern teams will take out another southern team on the way, or like 2011, 2 southern teams. By virtue of having just 3 teams, one and often two are knocked out before the finals by the other Southern giant. You then go on to say you will give examples of nothern teams making the quarters and Semis.. REALLY? lol! You do know what 8 Minus 3 equals right? 5 bloody spots for the north to make the Semis! You know what 4 minus 3 Equals right? At least one spot for a northern team to make the Quarters , and likely more considering the point above where one of the southern Giants have knocked out another already. Your logic is kindergarten at best, Winning % North Vs South , and WC winning % is Undeniably one sided.

      Flemstone - 2012-12-04 10:58

      If there's such a huge gulf why do NH teams beat SH teams? Why are some games won by a few points? You also need to take into account that a NH team has to beat a SH team to make a semi or final. Yes Ryan the percentage is much higher for SH wins. The claim that I'm challenging is that there's still a huge gulf. Someone in primary school would have picked this up. We're talking about the present, not 20 years ago. Sean's claim was that there is presently still a huge gulf. Sorry if I'm repeating myself here, but you lot have clearly missed my point. Ha ha ha ha ha. Really Ryan? Seems a bit childish to carry on like this?

      simone.dechandra.7 - 2012-12-04 12:13

      obvs no gulf. the northern hemisphere teams won 3 games against the southern hemisphere big 3 the whole year. dominated

      simone.dechandra.7 - 2012-12-04 12:15

      amazing how someone keeps arguing even when they are wrong.

      Flemstone - 2012-12-04 14:01

      SA beat Ireland by 4 points. France thumped Australia by 27. Australia scraped through by 3 points against Italy, and SA by one point against England. England then thumped NZ and Australia only just beat Wales. Its also worth mentioning what Ireland did to Argentina. A 22 point hiding. And that's a side that drew with SA. Simply winning is not dominating. Can you tell the difference I wonder? Simone do you know what the term huge gulf means? I'm sorry but I can't see it. Yes the SH is still superior. Not by much anymore. Thats my point.

  • jannie.devos.56 - 2012-12-03 07:52

    It was pretty obvious that they weren't themselves on the day. But be sure that they will be back winning the Super 15!

      fanie.viljoen.73 - 2012-12-03 08:12

      Jannie, if they loose they will not look like themselves to a lot of people, it was them I can assure you.

      kelly.duffield.33 - 2012-12-03 08:27

      Absolutely agreed Jannie!! But come on realistically speaking we can't expect them to win each and every game!! Of course we'd love it but its not always possible, right.. I am however sure that they will kick some ass in the Super 15!! YAY go the Mighty ALL BLACKS!!

      adrian.strydom - 2012-12-03 09:16

      The All Blacks are going to win the Super 15 ? When did they enter that competition ?

      stephen.eriksenmiller - 2012-12-03 09:26

      The All Blacks don't play in the Super 15! I think you mean The Rugby Championship, formerly known as the TriNations.

  • eugene.brink.9 - 2012-12-03 08:09

    There was definitely something amiss with the ABs, but the point is they lost and lost badly. It was entertaining as heck.

  • MIffkebuis - 2012-12-03 08:09

    If it was the Springboks, they would have said that we simply aren't good enough, double standards man

  • fanie.viljoen.73 - 2012-12-03 08:11

    Justin Marshall knows his Rugby, AB's were outplayed by the better team, faaaar better team.

      Caleb - 2012-12-04 02:40

      I think you need to add the addendum of 'on the day'. When the AB's hit their mark again, this English team will lose by 20-30. They got up big time fot his game and im not so sure they can remain up against any of the big three of the SH at home.

  • steve.ritchie.739 - 2012-12-03 08:19

    Makes the Boks win over England so much sweeter.

  • gino.lakey - 2012-12-03 08:22

    They lost......just bad losers

  • Derek Chapman - 2012-12-03 08:27

    Bunch of whiners

  • allhaleto.theale - 2012-12-03 09:05

    AB supporters are decidely quiet this week! Not crowing about how wonderful your team is and how bad the Springboks are now are you!

      dylan.claude.752 - 2012-12-03 20:28

      how many records did the boks set in the past 5 years since been given the world cup?maybe you as a bok supporter would realise how wonderfull the All Blacks are if you think about carefully.take your will come to you

      Caleb - 2012-12-04 03:03

      Hahah, you guys are acting like it was the Springboks beating the AB's, its been a long time since that aye boys and girls.

  • cape.maori - 2012-12-03 09:05

    Well done to the Poms! Only saw the game last night after a splendid time in the Karoo! Wow, the Pommies gave it to the world champions and deservedly won the game. No excuses from our side. The All Blacks were beaten at their own game. The Pommies were relentless at the breakdown areas and controlled the set phases. Once again to the Pommies - still, rather lose to them then the bokkies! Go ALL BLACKS!!!!

      omge.klits - 2012-12-03 12:10


      simone.dechandra.7 - 2012-12-03 15:51

      from "our" side do you know the words to the national anthem start to finish? hows the passport coming along?

      reg.nagel - 2012-12-03 18:57

      cape.maori three feathers....

  • jerome.fortuin.71 - 2012-12-03 09:12

    just excuses why cant you accept defeat just this once . Wonder what it will be like next time

  • will.hodge.524 - 2012-12-03 09:22

    According to caleb, jimmynz and other new zealanders on here, they don't make excuses for their losses and are humble in defeat. What do u have to say now haha? U look like bloody idiots now. But why should anybody be surprised, it is characteristic of new zealanders to make excuses when they lose.

      Jimmy NZ - 2012-12-03 11:06

      I haven't made any excuses... You should read your own articles and the myriad of stories as to the boks poor performance this year. It's almost like you are trying to take credit for England's victory (deserved) because it something you couldn't do. Your bitterness and hypocritical out look is bemusing.

      Flemstone - 2012-12-03 11:17

      No you're confusing them with South Africans who blame the ref.

      jean.wet.1 - 2012-12-03 15:34

      Jip, just like NZlanders blaming Wayne Barnes for 4 years..just like they blamed "Suzy"...just like Steve Hansen telling Oz to stop poaching NZ players when they drew against them in the Rugby Championship. Seems there's not much difference after all..

      theunis.botha.96 - 2012-12-04 00:53

      Jimmy me lad.Take caleb humdrum with you and go cry in the truck or cowboy up.

      Caleb - 2012-12-04 02:47

      Where are the excuses, i think you will find, they were at pains to not use any excuses.They admit they were beaten by a better team on the day, and you will find the NZ supporters on here commented the same. Are all South Africans really this stupid? Or are you just too ignorant to notice this?

      Caleb - 2012-12-04 03:04

      Will im afraid you are the biggest hyprocrite of them all, and that is really saying something on this forum. Take a look at previous comments where boks have lost, and then you may finally educate yourself.

  • sabelo.mashego.90 - 2012-12-03 09:23

    The boys from Down Under lost to an English side who refused to be beaten on the day, simple as that. Brad Barritt did mention in the week's build-up to the match that the All Blacks could be beaten and that they're not invincible - clearly. England demonstrated again that to give yourself the best chance to defeat the Kiwis, put them under pressure and 'strangle' them, they can't handle pressure. That's how the Boks beat them 3-0 in 2009. Well done England.

  • Jimmy NZ - 2012-12-03 11:11

    The bitter bok brigade does realise that the poms beat us (fair and square) and not the boks! Call us whatever you want but if you read the comments you're basically describing yourselves... 2012 the year the All Blacks went through the rugby championship unbeaten, oh wait a second, we do that quite often! Imagine a bok team that only had 1 defeat a year!!! Pfffft!!!

      cape.maori - 2012-12-03 11:20

      Well said Jimmy! The Pommies raised their game and they played the game in the manner the rugby world champions set the standards. In any event, to expect the mighty All Blacks to win each and every game is also unrealistic. I know we have high standards and our position confirms that. Rather lose now to the Poms then in 2015. I think the youngsters learn valuable lessons and I'm sooo excited about Savea. I'm not responding to the bok fans drivel - quite a level below our standards. Go ALL BLACKS and a well deserved break for King Richie.

      sean.bagley.50 - 2012-12-03 11:22

      Do yourself a favour mate and stop your BS whining on this forum already.Your trolling and b***ching is quite stale by now honestly dude.Give it a rest.

      cape.maori - 2012-12-03 12:09

      @Sean - since when are you the headboy at Sport24?

      Jimmy NZ - 2012-12-03 12:36

      @sean, you're saying the same sh#t over and over and over... Go The All Blacks!!!

      theunis.botha.96 - 2012-12-04 06:07

      Give us a true perspective Jim.The poms did not beat you.They destroyed you.

      Caleb - 2012-12-04 21:51

      Ok Thepenisbotha, the Poms beat us, but your team could not, and that is the season after a WC winning effort where all teams have notoriously had a bad year after WC, not the AB's.

  • viva.lebok - 2012-12-03 11:42

    They're probably change the rugby rules again, now that the AB weakness has been identified.

  • an.a.969 - 2012-12-03 11:48

    How many times do they have stomach bugs?they should invest in a deceint cook! - 2012-12-03 12:17

      and u should invest in a dictionary!!!!

      riaan.crouse1 - 2012-12-03 14:57

      @Pat i had a great weekend and you all cats were properly beaten by an not so good eng team whahahaha

      fatu.esialai - 2012-12-03 15:25

      @riann. England played excellent rugby. did you even watch the game? oh that's right, you're just trolling.

      fatu.esialai - 2012-12-03 15:26

      @riann. England played excellent rugby. did you even watch the game? oh that's right, you're just trolling.

      riaan.crouse1 - 2012-12-03 17:14

      I did watch the what your point?

      an.a.969 - 2012-12-03 17:47

      Should the 'a' in 'and' not be a capital letter Pat?

  • allblacksfanatic - 2012-12-03 12:11

    Congrats to England on a game well played!!! To all the HATERS out there the ALL BLACKS won 19, drawn 1 and lost 1!!! #WorldChamps #RugbyChampionChamps #NR1-Ranking!!! #BenchmarkOfWorldRugby

  • Bazzpete - 2012-12-03 12:55

    The All Blacks were knackered and you could see it. This should be a warning sign to all rugby "officials" that are bleeding the Springboks dry that even the AB's, who are well man-managed, are still human and will feel the effects of a crazy season of 11 months(?). The Boks are poorly handled by the Provinces and will hit the wall with a far greater bang if central contracts aren't instigated sooner rather than later.

  • frank.schoombee - 2012-12-03 17:51

    Wow now thats a hard one to take on the chin, but well done to the Pomms, what a game they played, to outclass us Blacks on almost all the score sheets say's allot of how well they have prepared for this, all we can say is well done England, savour the moment, they are rare!!

  • tony.delucchi - 2012-12-04 12:18

    ...all I can add is the NZ side started the tour against relatively "weak" opposition, Scotland, Italy then Wales then they came up against a side that took the Springboks to the wire....and reckoned like any enthusiatice schoolboy, we beat the Boks twice this year, with England all we have to do is turn up our rep should beat them, well the English brought the down to earth quite brilliantly! Records are fine but they do not win matches!

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