News24

Steyn's 'Bok Saga' must end

2010-08-12 22:33

JJ Harmse

Pretoria – “It cannot continue like this.”

The Frans Steyn saga has to be brought to a head. It is only creating confusing perceptions about the player’s desire to play for the Springboks and is also putting the possible use of other South Africans playing overseas in jeopardy.

That was the view of Springbok coach Peter de Villiers when he heard that Steyn could not be considered for the Tri-Nations Test against the All Blacks.

Firstly because he is struggling with an injury and secondly because French club Racing Metro are not compelled to release him immediately.

Steyn’s unavailability is now official.

National teams manager Andy Marinos said on Thursday that Racing had said that Steyn is injured and will therefore only be able to train again on Wednesday.

There were also administrative procedures that had to be followed such as the formal request by SA Rugby to use the player.

That process has to be initiated 14 days in advance and Racing are therefore under no obligation to release Steyn for the Test against the All Blacks.

They won’t however be able to prevent the Boks from using Steyn in Tests against the Wallabies in Pretoria and Bloemfontein.

De Villiers admitted on Thursday that the Steyn saga is frustrating and that he would not have sent Zane Kirchner back to the Blue Bulls had he known that Steyn would not be able to play against the All Blacks.

“Things now have to be brought to a head. I want to know and see that a player wants to play for the Springboks and that his heart is in it. It does not help that there are players that will die for the team, but that others don’t feel the same way. That is not necessarily the case with Frans, but those kind of perceptions can take hold,” said De Villiers.

“It creates frustration and disrupts plans. A player’s loyalty to the Bok jersey should never be questioned.”

De Villiers said that the struggles backed up his view not to rely on overseas-based players for the Bok squad.

“We see them play on a weekly basis when they are here. I have also previously said that I believe the game in the Northern Hemisphere is played at a slower pace than in the Southern Hemisphere and that disadvantages players that have to come and play for the Boks. I still believe that is the case. And when one struggles to get hold of a player that you want, you have to wonder whether it’s worthwhile.”

This is the second time this year that South Africa have experienced problems with an international call-up. Butch James could also not play against Wales after Premier Rugby refused to release him.

Marinos said that he would now be forced to visit clubs that have players that are in De Villiers’s plans.

“I will head there with the Bok plans for the next 12 months and explain when and where we will need the players. We’ll need mutual co-operation to get the desired results,” he said.

Sport24

Comments
  • Amazed - 2010-08-12 22:56

    Amazes me in this age of email and instant communication that a coach does not know the availability of the players that are in his squad. Now Sa rugby has to send Marinos round Europe to secure overseas boks, we pay more for tickets and merchandise....

  • Ted - 2010-08-12 22:57

    wow. Peter meant to say that Frans wants to play for the boks, but it is out of his hands for the upcoming test. He also wanted to say people may get the perception that Frans doesn't want to play for the Boks, something that isn't true. ........... What he actually ended up saying was as confusing as his NZ Reffing debacle. Instead let me just bring my own point accross: Complaining that overseas contracted players are hard to "get" when you need them and therefore you think it is right that you shouldn't use them at all, is laughable. Get to grips with the logistics and contractual limitations and boundaries before the season, instead of sending Andy Marinos half way through this one when you've already lost out on two occasions. This press release only proves unfortunately that Peter does not plan appropriately and blames his hardships on something he says he would rather avoid than handle. Steyn's desire to the play for Green and Gold doesn't factor into this entire thing one iota. We all know he wants to play for the Boks, however if he knew what was expected of him in the long term in SA Rugby (fly half? center? wing? fullback?) he may have been more willing and able to stay in SA from the outset.... Furthermore, Peter can easily watch the Racing Metro games edited down for Frans's interactions to gauge his form. He doens't need to fly to Paris to watch the game. Poor excuse. Goodness knows he has enough tech support to have those kinds of tapes delviered to his door every Monday, and watching it will take all of 25 minutes.

  • rob - 2010-08-12 23:12

    Poor planning and illustrates the lack of foresight of the bok coach. Why pick Steyn now after two months out of rugby in any case? P Divvy is out of his league and it will only get worse in the coming months. Poor strategist and tired of all his tantrums.

  • IRONIC - 2010-08-12 23:21

    PDV YOU TOLD THE WORLD AFTER THE WALES TEST THAT STEYN WAS OFF THE PACE...YOU THREW YOUR TOP FULLBACK TO THE DOGS AND NOW YOU RUNNING BACK WITH YOUR TAIL BETWEEN YOUR LEGS.ITS CLEAR YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING...YOU SHOULD NOT DEVULGE SO MUCH TO THE PUBLIC AS YOU HAVE NO TACT AND THIS SHOWS HOW POOR YOUR THINKING IS.

  • Ghalib - 2010-08-12 23:21

    De Villiers must stop blaming everyone else and check his own incompetence in administration. Steyn’s unavailability is now official. Marinos said on Thursday that Racing had said that Steyn was injured. "There were also administrative procedures that had to be followed such as the formal request by SA Rugby to use the player. That process has to be initiated 14 days in advance and Racing are therefore under no obligation to release Steyn for the Test against the All Blacks." Does Peter de Villiers think the French must fall over their own feet to please him? he is obliged like anyone else to follow procedures, and if he cannot or will not, the fault lies with him and not the player or the French club. Wake up, de Villiers!!!!

  • Scream - 2010-08-12 23:27

    If only we were all allowed to offer up bullshit like this for not knowing our arses from our elbows. Jeez, man, and this is the bloke who is apparrently world class - bloody clown. How many more times must the public urge the coach to shut up!!

  • Typical! - 2010-08-12 23:40

    I agree with the comments from both "Ted" and "Amazed". Let's actually simplify what has happened with this press release... Peter De Villiers is basicaly upset because he wants to call the shots at the last minute. This is the exact problem with business in South Africa - guys, it is called a CONTRACT. And you have to honour that contract for better or for worse. Calling for Steyn outside of the 14 day notice period and expecting a release is unfair. ESPECIALLY if you have not made your intentions clear to Steyn or the club he is currently contracted to. It is a bit late to have a last minute panic and "client visit". It's a simple problem to solve when you understand the rules and are PROFESSIONAL in your approach. No wonder other teams around the world think we are a laughing stock right now. Leadership, influence, perception, and reputation comes from the top. Peter... you are a SHOCKER!!! One cannot expect to totally disrupt another's plans and strategies based on a perceived power / influence. Just because it's an International game versus a National game doesn't mean that Racing doesn't have the same needs and wants as the Boks. Steyn is a GREAT player. You want him to play. And you need him to play. So... to put Steyn's motives in question seriously frustrates me!!! He WANTS to play. Why would our own coach surmise that Steyn does not want to "die for the team"? Ulterior motives for such a comment can only be the case. Because... Steyn...... is not an EMPLOYMENT EQUITY CANDIDATE! If he were, do you really think there would be a problem here?

  • Obvious - 2010-08-12 23:40

    So we pay SARU R400+ a ticket for doing what? How hard can it be to pick up a phone and do your job? Or to watch a video of a player you are interested in? Or tell one of the other overpayed wankers to watch it & tell you what he saw?

  • mike - 2010-08-13 00:30

    We need a strict policy of non selection for overseas based players. Full stop, you go play oversea's you may not be considered for the Boks. That will stop this crap and also when a player chooses to go play overseas he is saying no to Bok rugby.

  • callie - 2010-08-13 01:36

    PDV talks more rubbish in an interview than any other SA coach of any sport category. What an embarassment. Just coach the team properly, if you can!!

  • koos - 2010-08-13 02:38

    Bull dust is it now the IN thing to blame Peter for everything. Get of his back. The money plays far too big role in Frans life. His contract is killing his chances to play for SA. Look at it this way, he is not always available because of his contract. What if we get a injury during training say on the Monday before the test. You cant then pick him because of the 14 day notice. How can a coach plan for something if you have to run to the club and plead all the time, please release the player. I hope this is the last effort to use overseas based players. Why blame the Springboks defeat on a player like Zane, in one of the losing tests against the AB's he was the best SA player that day. Stick to the guy, remember how many games Frans Steyn got to settle in the Bok team. He was Jakes little pet boy. It took him 15 tests to do something decent. And it occurs once every 5th game.

  • Gerhardt - 2010-08-13 06:00

    Another pathetic excuse. The time has come for SARU to admit bad planning. If Div is responsible, he must be released immediately.

  • william - 2010-08-13 06:43

    no one wants to work with this guy....incompetence and arrogance is all you get. Northern hemisphere coaches do not respect you and I would stop saying anything about their rugby until we do not look totally out of our depth due to the zero plan game you employ

  • SA Supporter - 2010-08-13 07:09

    My word!!! Imagine that,a multi million rand company that doesn't even know the contractual agreements of it's staff!!. Try running even a small company without knowing when your staff are available for "meetings" or "presentations" and see how far you get. In this case I don't really think it's the coach's fault but it does illustrate what a mess SARU is in management wise.

  • JSC - 2010-08-13 07:17

    P Divis a joke and an embarrasment for rugby supporters in this country> He really is not capable of performing and fulfilling such a demanding position.

  • 06 - 2010-08-13 07:21

    You all know what??? It isn't Peter Div's problem if a player is overseas. If a national coach calls you up and you can't pitch because your club won't release you then you loose out! so sad so bad! Frans Steyn wanted to play there so he should get himself out of that contract!

  • Garreth - 2010-08-13 07:38

    div. you would of had steyn long ago if you knew how to coach. you should of tried to organise him 2 weeks before the tri nations. also if you didnt want him for the away leg then you should of sent a request wen you got back from the away leg. there were three weeks between our last game and the next one. and i dont know if you can count that high but that gives you 21 days. here comes another excuse from old man helium

  • PDV/Quota-Hater - 2010-08-13 07:52

    ....blame the AA coach, quotas and politics in sport... .....Go Kiwis..!!!

  • Ray - 2010-08-13 07:56

    I have to wonder how far we, as spectators can take this. If we boycott any games played here under this clown as coach, we should be able to make a substantial difference. No spectators, no turnover. Simple. Why should we continue to fill the coffers of SARU with these continuous disappointments? PDiv HAS to GO!!!

  • Willie - 2010-08-13 07:57

    After believing for qiute awhile that Peter de Villiers only needed the support of the country, I now realise that he does not know what he is doing, and literally does not know what he is saying. I don't believe he is a bad guy, but he is not wat SA rugby need at this time.

  • Frans - 2010-08-13 07:58

    Pleez people rugby is a professional game and suppose to be managed accordingly. Unfortunately in Steyn's case this issue was apparently not addressed properly.

  • Nats - 2010-08-13 08:03

    I am sure Frans wants to play for his country, I am also 99% sure he just doesnt wanna play for you P Div, who would want to be involved in this joke of a rugby team at the moment. JUst shows time and time again poor, poor management. How long will it take till PDiv realises that NO one wants him as coach.....oh wait he doesnt care what anyone thinks, its all about him.....in 10 years time when you mention all the legend coaches of Springbok rugby, I am sure the clown will not be on that list, he will be the guy you joke and curse about around a fire about how he took a World cup winning rugby team and made them look like a bunch of ballerinas running around a field and also ruined a franchise that has taken many years of hard work to build...take a hike PDiv!

  • Rooster - 2010-08-13 08:05

    What another Cock-up, and who's in the middle yet again.......BUMBLING,MUMBLING DIV that's who !! Get rid of this joker,send him to the circus where the entry fee is cheaper and kiddies love clowns. We South Africans deserve better !!!!!!

  • Duty - 2010-08-13 08:06

    This Div. bashing has become so 'old news' and such a bad habit that it is absolutely irrelevant at this stage.The racists that hide behind the veneer of respectability and loyal citizenry of this country use the medium of the internet to come out of hiding to reveal their true hypocritical selves.The false and idiotic belief that a person of colour is incapable of achieving or doing anything positive appears to be genetically ingrained and reinforced by a set of beliefs nurtured over the years this country was in the doldrums and controlled by blind,ignorant people, yet the loyal disciples of this flawed doctrine of racism continue unabated in their new found avenue to release their vitriol with a vigor that can only be attributed pure unadulterated morons and mentally challenged individuals.It is absolutely unbelievable that people can utter so much hate but hate in a extermely anal variety.And these are the very same people that go about on these forums calling the coach names yet forget that the type of intelligence they claim he does not have is exactly,judging from the comments they themselves lack.These anonymous commentators claim to know better but their comments are so lower grade and anal one wonders if the "privileged"education they received during apartheid was not engineered to create educated fools.I think it was! You are proving it to be so.Would it not be better to play the ball rather than play he man! That is what informed and knowledgeable individuals do.Idiots play the man!

  • MikeO - 2010-08-13 08:16

    Who can blame Steyn. With the village idiot in charge many will still reconsider their loyalty.

  • Deon - 2010-08-13 08:16

    FRANS WANTS TO PLAY FOR THE BOKS!!!!!!!! Frans is a bit hot headed, but he reacts still like a child I think, but will always play for the boks...when he feels comfotable there. With PDV he is clearly not comfortable. Who wants to play for someone that makes a mess of things. Communication, interviews, defence systems...Speaking of which. If youre a Good coach, Why do you hire everyone else to do your job... Gary Gold...Actually the forwards coach. But now defence coach. Derik Muir...Lions coach, and we saw what happened with them this season. Os du Randt because he can actually coach a scrum...Now they want a Defence coach, cuase theres none to speak of. What does De Villiers do?!? Cause the players give their insights on things as he has said previously!!!! I think de Villiers is a player...playing on things he doesnt really understand. Who wants to play for someone who is a coach without coaching abilities... Why get in someone when you actually have to do the work yourself!!! AND ANOTHER THING, THE COACH SHOULD NOT RAISE HIS DOUBTS AND QUESTIONS OF A PLAYER PUBLICLY...This is like a work environment. You do it with the person behind closed doors and in person. Not over the air where you can manipulate peoples way of thinking about a player. If you feel theres something off...speak to the player himself with no MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why I wouldnt play for the guy while he's managing the team.

  • George - 2010-08-13 08:18

    This Frans child should get back to earth and stop thinking that the sun is shining from his rear. Good on you PdV - tell him to bugger off for good and go play for money elsewhere. There's good talent that locally that doesnt think the world of themselves.

  • Duty - 2010-08-13 08:18

    This Div. bashing has become so 'old news' and such a bad habit that it is absolutely irrelevant at this stage.The racists that hide behind the veneer of respectability and loyal citizenry of this country use the medium of the internet to come out of hiding to reveal their true hypocritical selves.The false and idiotic belief that a person of colour is incapable of achieving or doing anything positive appears to be genetically ingrained and reinforced by a set of beliefs nurtured over the years this country was in the doldrums and controlled by blind,ignorant people, yet the loyal disciples of this flawed doctrine of racism continue unabated in their new found avenue to release their vitriol with a vigor that can only be attributed pure unadulterated morons and mentally challenged individuals.It is absolutely unbelievable that people can utter so much hate but hate in a extermely anal variety.And these are the very same people that go about on these forums calling the coach names yet forget that the type of intelligence they claim he does not have is exactly,judging from the comments they themselves lack.These anonymous commentators claim to know better but their comments are so lower grade and anal one wonders if the "privileged"education they received during apartheid was not engineered to create educated fools.I think it was! You are proving it to be so.Would it not be better to play the ball rather than play he man! That is what informed and knowledgeable individuals do.Idiots play the man!

  • James - 2010-08-13 08:26

    Viva, Duty, Viva!

  • @duty - 2010-08-13 08:32

    Dear Sir, Please be advised that your pseudo-intellectual socio-economic views are best expressed elsewhere, such as parliament. Unkind regards, Piet Pompie

  • fatman - 2010-08-13 08:37

    the correspondent DUTY has hit the nail on the head. i fully agree with his statements. it is about time that the bigots in our society stand up and support the national team or shut up.no needs their putrid vitriol.as a white south african i am utterly ashamed at how my fellow south africans behave. GET SOME PRIDE AND STAND BEHIND OUR BOYS (ALL OF THEM)

  • mysticBoer @Duty - 2010-08-13 08:38

    I'll agree you write with some elegance and your english isn't half bad (unlike mine which can sometimes be really horrible).Why is everything everyone ever says about P Divvy a 'racist comment'. Please look at this objectively. P Divvy is making a fool of himself. Had he followed the correct procedures in both Butch James (heaven knows why he wanted this guy) and Frans Steyn's case, he would've been able to play whoever he wanted to whenever he wanted to. I'm NOT saying this as a racist, I'm saying this as a realist - Peter de Villiers is out of his depth. If he is really as good as he thinks he is (quote : "I'm a god given talent.") why does he need the Western Province defensive coach to come and sort out his problems? No mate, you're the racist here. Regarding your following comments: quote".The false and idiotic belief that a person of colour is incapable of achieving or doing anything positive appears to be genetically ingrained and reinforced by a set of beliefs nurtured over the years this country was in the doldrums and controlled by blind,ignorant people, yet the loyal disciples of this flawed doctrine of racism continue unabated in their new found avenue to release their vitriol with a vigor that can only be attributed pure unadulterated morons and mentally challenged individuals" --- I for one have a great respect for Alistair Coetzee at the moment. The guy is doing marvellous things at Province and would've been a far better candidate for the Bok job. I'm NOT a racist, and I'm not saying this because Peter is a coloured man - but he is SA Rugby/SARU's biggest mistake since Harry Viljoen.

  • Vaalseun - 2010-08-13 08:41

    In this case Div might not to be blamed directly--although personal differences between Div and Frans might exist, to put it mildly. However, if there is a time limit under which overseeing clubs of overseas players must be notified of our intention to use them ... and this time limit has not been honoured, then this whole fiasko has got nothing to do with Frans or Div, whatsoever, We should then look at the management team of the Boks to find out who twiddled their thumbs instead of earning their keep.

  • Al - 2010-08-13 08:42

    Forget about Steyn. Too big and slow for a good fullback.

  • jay - 2010-08-13 08:54

    @Duty - your language use does nothing for me. @ PDiv - Please see the bigger picture - Frans cannot override club rules, he's only a player. Don't blame his desire or lack thereof when red tape is actually a reality - it seems you don't have regard for. Alistair for coach!!

  • @duty - 2010-08-13 09:01

    Taht's right, everything is to blame on apartheid. All the incompetence, corruption, crime, etc. Blame everything else except the those that got into power based on quotas or the colour of their skin!

  • Bliss@ Duty - 2010-08-13 09:04

    Ok Seriously man, it is because 90% of the people in this country thinks like you - That we allways struggling with this colour thing - you too quick to pull the racist card. now get it in you're head. Nobody has something against the man's color! it's because he's making SA Rugby's well respected name bad. He's been doing the wrong things over and over again. nothing here to do with color. Sorry mate but YOU are rather the one thinking in color the whole time.. People just wants the best man for the Job. be it black, white, yellow, pink, green, blue, red. As long as he can do the job that the Boks deserve.

  • @Duty - 2010-08-13 09:04

    ....and you are also a clown... ....a blind clown.... ...shame...

  • Duty - 2010-08-13 09:23

    All I am trying to say is that instead of bashing the individual and go off at a tangent by indulging in infantile jokes and name calling and the longer it goes on the comments starts to have a racial undertone,that has nothing to do with rugby at all,can we not perhaps indulge ourselves in a novel approach of constructive, intelligent and analytical l criticism of the game ,players and coach instead of allowing a knee jerk reactions to take control over what we comment on and how we chose to voice it.I think we should be careful not to be swept along with this populist approach to bash Div. in the most despicable way possible.Come on guys,that is just plain rude, we are better than that really! At the end of the day, the comments that are made don't really make much sense and it ends up being a ugly tirade which i cringe at when i read it and to think South Africans write this about their own coach irrespective of whether your agree with him or not he does not deserve it,no one does.In fact you end up having alot of sympathy for Div. as a result. With all this Div bashing going on, for anybody that do not understand this country and it's dynamics we may appear that we are "backwards".I don't agree with all the decisions made in the Bok camp but I will not allow myself degenerate morally by calling him names and call into question competence etc.I will debate decisions made by the "team" at large and debate how it can or should be improved or changed or discuss better strategy.I will feel disappointed at loses and sulk for a short while but not to the extent that I lose my morality and common decency and respect towards other, but the way it is going on now in these forums it appears as if we are "experts" at name calling and insulting and not rugby.This plays right into the hands of the real"enemy" our opponents.Lets reflect all the energy we currently reserve for Div. and Div. alone at them not ourselves.

  • PDiv Rules - 2010-08-13 09:24

    @ Duty...Agree with you 100%

  • NEILLE @misticboer - 2010-08-13 09:27

    well said !!! this guy ( DUTY ) is the biggest rasist i've ever seen ! unlike him , we LOVE RUGBY ! we HATE politics in rugby ! All we want is too watch our boys play well and make us proud no matter what their skin colour !

  • Fanie - 2010-08-13 09:27

    The next "hard to get" player will be Ruan Pienaar

  • Emile - 2010-08-13 09:28

    SARU is really a bunch of clowns. Not the first time or the second time they failed to follow protocol with regarded to overseas players. Can't they do anything correct?

  • ProudlySACapeTonian - 2010-08-13 09:29

    I do not normally respond to anything on this forum as I believe that the majority of the comments are not constructive and are made with a very narrow view of mind. I will also probably be lambasted for disagreeing to the majority of the people who use this platform to whine. What has inspired me to say something was after reading the comments made "Duty". It was great to see someone makes comments based on the merits of the facts on hand in the article only, and not to manipulate the facts to push agenda which is to bad mouth our "black" South African coach. I take for instant this article, if you read the article it is clear that the coach is not part of the process of recruiting players but some how certain individuals manipulated the facts so that the ONLY the coach is to be blamed. I understand that as a national coach one is open to criticism, but I wish that people would give credit where credit is due and to be reasonable and sensible when forming arguments to criticize people, otherwise people will not take those comments seriously. Based on facts, this team is one of the best South African sides of all-time, and our national coach is part of this team. You cannot ignore the fact that he has made a contribution no matter how little some people may feel he has. Millions of people around the country already support our team passionately (including the coach) but at the end of the day its your choice. However, just look what the World Cup did to unite our country, it even converted every doomsayer I know to get behind SA once the world cup arrived and they saw how amazing it was. SA can become the best place in world if everyone just stood together and rallied behind our national teams, (even if in your view you believe that there are imperfections that exist). No one is perfect, so lets make the best of a good thing. Go SA...Go Bokke!!

  • terry - 2010-08-13 09:31

    Well PdV - if you had a clear plan and communicated this to the players - then you wouldn't be in this pickle, would you. You were the one who wrote off Steyn after one game against Wales, when I for one thought that he had an OK game (he certaainly wasn't the worst on the field) - and was streets ahead of anything that Zane Kirchner has delivered in a Bok jersey. Then you make a statement that it is a problem with overseas based players not being available. I cannot believe that with the money we pay you and the others at SARU, that you do not have the phone numbers and email addresses of the top 100 South African players playing in Europe - as well as the details of their clubs and managers. If you and the rest of the SARU team cannot make the necessary communication with the players and their clubs in time to secure their release, then you are failing in your duties. Stop blaming the players, the ref, SANZAR, and everybody else - and get yourself organised. It's time you started to earn your salary!

  • Johnny - 2010-08-13 09:35

    Mayde Div should learn about the rules of players at foreign clubs, then he would have known to get Frans on earlier notice. Maybe he just does not like him and make us the public think taht he has control of the Bokke.

  • Mark - 2010-08-13 09:45

    Get Lambie.!!! Zane K is useless!!!!! Even Tiger was beter at the Bulls

  • Eric - 2010-08-13 09:48

    Perhaps the whole crux of this whole matter is the reason most of the players even consider playing overseas. Because they get stuffed around by the coaches - having to play out of position etc. It is always easy to say that the player "may not have his heart in polaying for the Boks". As regards the lack of administration requirements, this is nothing unusual. SARU have been neglecting to do the right thing for years. They believe that when they say "Jump", they expect everyone to ask "How high".

  • @DUTY - 2010-08-13 09:50

    Yes... I love playing "He man" And you use the word "a***" alot??? You mised out on some this week that you have to use the word so much?

  • @Duty - 2010-08-13 09:59

    @Duty, ....you are also a clown.. ...a blind clown....

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