Vodacom Super 14

Referees get red carded

2010-03-10 22:39
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John Smit has a run-in with Paul Marks. (Gallo Images)

Hendrik Cronjé

Bloemfontein – SANZAR’s refereeing bosses have given Australian official Paul Marks a red card.

South Africa’s Pro Legoete will also not officiate again in this year’s Super 14.

Marks will “not easily” referee in this year’s Super 14 again following his controversial decisions in the Sharks’ defeat against the Waratahs at the weekend.

He made a huge mistake by not awarding the Sharks a penalty try in the dying minutes of the game.

Rather than a penalty try, Marks decided to punish Kurtley Beale with a yellow card and award a penalty when Stefan Terblanche’s pass to Ryan Kankowski with an open try-line ahead was illegally knocked down.

In a circular letter, New Zealand’s Lyndon Bray said that refereeing bosses had taken some “tough” decisions this week.

“Both Paul Marks and Pro Legoete got the message that they will not officiate in the near future,” writes Bray.

Marks was not judged only on one game, but on his performances throughout the competition.

Legoete has only blown for 120 minutes in this year’s Super 14.

He was sent on as substitute referee in the game between the Sharks and Cheetahs after Jonathan Kaplan could not continue because of illness.

Legoete was also the referee in the game between the Cheetahs and Highlanders in Bloemfontein.

South African referees boss André Watson believes Legoete has the ability to blow at Super 14 level again.

“Unlike Marks, who has officiated about 10 times, Pro does not have much experience. We believe Pro can make it, but there are some technical things that he will have to sort out at a different level,” said Watson.

He said these steps were not anything unusual.

“We’ve been doing it for years, but are only stating it openly now.”

 

Your Comments

Sakkie3/14/2010 12:36 AM
Doesnt help how mutch we Shark supporters complain,the game against the waratahs was poorly refereed from the start.The ref made alot of wrong calls.So the ref gets penalized,but the Sharks also,we the Sharks couldve gotten 4 points out of that game and it wouldve been a good boost for the teams confidence for the game against the Brumbies and the game couldve been different and the sharks could be in a good position.At the end of it all the sharks still comes of second best doesnt matter if the dont let him blow a game,he allready caused damage.We are complaining,shark or no shark,if it was a other team there will still be complaining.The sharks deserved the win against the waratahs and in all fairness should be stripped for the points they got in the match and rather let both teams get 2 point each and be called a draw.Penalizing the ref wont help the sharks get there 4 points back.We supporters must stand behind our team and support them even more.They will come back...
Chiduli3/12/2010 7:32 AM
I agree with George...Sydney based side, Sydney based ref, home game?? How much kite did Marks have on the game?
AJ @ bulawayo-based-bok3/12/2010 6:52 AM
Hoe does anybody control a group of ants actually, but point taken, Pro was rushed in, they should have taken more time with him.
Chris in Oz3/12/2010 12:16 AM
@WP. I think what Frans wanted to say was that that is just how brilliantly good the Stormers are. And if Paul Marks referee the game in their favour, who knows. It might be a big possibility....
wayne3/11/2010 7:58 PM
I think all refs should be penalised when they mess up,let see how long there salary lasts
Fafa3/11/2010 5:39 PM
Watson should take the blame for creating show men instead of ref's. Mark Lawrence should consider becoming a traffic cop and Jonker, van der Merwe,Berry etc. should join him. Rf's should concentrate on the game and not their image.
Erik3/11/2010 5:05 PM
Ja nee Frans, good one you go boy! If the Stormers play the stormers who do you want to win? Can see your a wp supporter. Just one more brain cell than a bulls supporter. And between you and me, that is not a lot.
Frikkie van Windhoek3/11/2010 4:46 PM
HALLELUJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About time... Now please look at Stuart DICKenson as well. He is the personafication of uselessness. As a matter of fact, all Aussi refs are...
Raymond3/11/2010 4:44 PM
@DAVE-If you have a bone in your throat,spit it out because you are going to choke.This is not about colour but, ability and the decision is NOT purely a South African one.In case you don't know,there are people in Australia and New Zealand that also attend rugby matches and watch television.
hardiblu3/11/2010 3:17 PM
The suspension of the referee is an admission that Sharks deserved the win from a extremely poor decision, so is it not unreasonable to expect the game to be replayed at the end of this tournment?, it may just turn out to be very important.
colin3/11/2010 3:04 PM
well done!!! it has been a long time coming for that idiot marks!!!
WP3/11/2010 2:50 PM
Frans - how the $#@! can the Stormers score a try against the Stormers. Wakker maak man.
Craig3/11/2010 2:47 PM
It was quite clear to see that "Pro" excuse the pun, was an absolute ameteur. Once the highlanders figured out he wasn't going to do anything more than give a penalty for blatant professional fouls they stopped every chetahs attack by cynical means. But he was just lousy on the technical side. marks seemed to have an agenda and that ladies and gentlemen should exclude him from officiating in the future. The sharks however should stop bleating about a penalty try - Kankowski still had to catch the ball and lets face it with the way things have gone for them this season he would probably have dropped it. Should've kicked some more penalties and converted possession into points instead of kicking it straight back to the opposition. Finish and klaar!
WP man (@Dave)3/11/2010 2:04 PM
It is OK to attack the useless Paul Marks, but as soon as someone refers to the failure of Pro Legoete, it is racial discrimination. The matter of the fact is that Marks has been OK in the past, but completely lost it. However Legoete has never been on S14 level. Watson admits openly @ Dave, your totally irrational and out of line. What we hear is that it is OK to earmark Paul Marks as a bad ref because he is white. But if someone refers to the failure of Pro Legoete, it is racial discrimination because he is Black. You know, I pity you – it must be difficult to go through life with such a chip on your shoulder. Legoete has never been on S14 level. Watson admits openly that “…Pro can make it, but there are some technical things that he will have to sort out at a different level.” I fully agree with Watson; Legoete will eventually develop in a good referee. However, face the brutal facts: Pro was either reckless enough or stupid enough to accept an undeserved promotion to S14 level. Why was he selected for promotion? Figure it out yourself
Jacques3/11/2010 1:50 PM
As a Lions supported I was furious for the poor judgment of the referee who were in charge of the sharks’ game. He cost them at least three almost certain tries in the last 15min. The forward pass was never a forward pass, the almost penalty try and what about the obstruction in the line out 5 meters out. All this is good and well giving the ref a red card and making a statement to other refs, however how is this in any way benefitting the team that was disadvantaged. Maybe the sharks will only need these three points to qualify for a spot in the semi’s or maybe the Waratahs will qualify for a semi spot because of this. The TV ref is only on alert when the match referee refers a decision. Come on guy there’s technology use it. The line referees must be in charge of forward passes and when a scrum is set. If the ref is on one side of the scrum he must rely on the other side to be monitored by that lines man. Speak to each other with ear phones and make the people accountable for there decisions.
Louis3/11/2010 1:06 PM
Well done SANZAR. Marks should start playing gholf and Pro must get a job in parliament. As long as they stay away from refereeing.
@Gerrit3/11/2010 12:17 PM
The law states "if the try would probably be scored". There is an article on rugby365 about that particular incident and the laws that Paul Marks breached. All in all it should have been a penalty try according to the experts. Quite an interesting article.
Uriah Heep3/11/2010 11:49 AM
Deservedly so for blatant cheat Paul Marks! I'm PLEASED!
Gerrit3/11/2010 11:38 AM
I really do sympathize with the Sharks because overall the ref gave them a raw deal in the game. However, the ref was right not to award the penalty try. There was just too much doubt to know that a try would have been scored without any shaddow of a doubt. Kantkowski still had to (1) catch the ball and (2) make his way successfully to the try line to (3) place the ball in a controlled manner accross the try line. A try was probable but not guaranteed, therefore the penalty was just and sufficient.
Jack3/11/2010 11:31 AM
I agree with the sentiments expressed here about the refereeing standards. And I really feel sorry for what happened to the Sharks, even as a Bulls supporter. But, guys, I doubt if any referee would award a penalty try for a professional foul committed on the 25m line. This is just plain fact. The Sharks should not be allowing themselves to get into that position, by scoring tries. Having said that, there have been too many close games where the ref has influenced the outcome. Surely this is what a ref should avoid. And it's not just refs - how many times have we seen linesmen not calling forward passes or obstructions because they were out of position? With the high stakes riding on results in the professional era, we definitely need more technology, and a simplification of the laws.
Greg Dean3/11/2010 11:21 AM
As Sanzar has recognised Paul Marks biased reffing perhaps the points, at the very least, should be shared!
Mike3/11/2010 10:56 AM
Dave.... get over yourself.... I have seen lots of times that people moan and complain of white refs.... you are the only one that suddenly brings race into the below standard refs.
Joe 3/11/2010 10:54 AM
Now that useless Jonker and Lawrence must be dealt with ....verkrampte et.ers
gary3/11/2010 10:53 AM
Boys and Girls................breathe....a refs decision has in the past and will in the future always make a difference in a game of rugby....it depends on what side of the fence you are sitting if you agree to the decision or not. The fact that I can turn on my tv and watch 4 games of rugby on a Sat is satisfiying enough although I agree that a side should have two refferals per half that can be sent for adjudication by the match official........its not going to take up to much extra time and will avoid the issues we had last weekend with regard to the 'ball slapping' incident in the Sharks game. Admittedly, the ref has a split second to make a decision we see over and over on slow motion so...its very simple....extend the refeeral system to include ANY part of the game the ref is not sure about. If the game does get too long extend the time into 4 quarters instead of 2 halves.....can you imagine the additional time that would be created for advertising and the revenue created from it?
Joe 3/11/2010 10:52 AM
Now that useless Jonker and Lawrence must be dealt with ....verkrampte et.ers
leonora3/11/2010 10:45 AM
I just feel that the match should be play over because of the referees big mistake
Gtr3/11/2010 10:35 AM
@ Aryan: If memory serves me correctly, it was Stuart Barnes that missed that pass, and he is an Englishman... and Barnes aren't much better than Pro. Shame, I suppose it hurts to get the short end of the stick. We SA's can sympathise with you. (NOT) @Imboriako: Shame, did you say anything when Pro blew the Bulls of the pitch in their CC match on Newlands? I'm sure Brock Harris must have given Pro a nice 'handshake'. That, while his hands were still green from the Newlands grass. Tell me, how many times did we see on TV, that Brock's hands were on the deck in a scrum? But Pro was very blind to that. Personally, I hope that the refs can be fair, so that when we win the S14, you guys can shut your traps. The Bulls don't need the help of the refs, but unfortunately, they were favored by some calls. And I'm sure the Stormers were also favored somewhere along the line. Much has been said about the 2007 S14 final, Habana's try, etc etc... The try that Albert Van den Bergh scored was also illegal... but it's the Bulls that cheated? If Francois Steyn couldn't kick the ball out, or at least have gotten the conversion kick, nothing of Bryan Habana's try would have mattered in any case.
Jeremy3/11/2010 10:34 AM
Viva SANZAR !!! If you are not good enough to be on the S14 scene...then off you go.
Jo3/11/2010 10:30 AM
Has Paul Marks even acknowledged or apologized to the Sharks for his bugger up? Probably not since it had the desired outcome!
Denése - Solid Sharks' Supporter. 3/11/2010 10:25 AM
Good on you SANZAR! It's about time that refs got the same treatment that they dished out - especially when they dished out one -sided treatment. Marks now HAS to see it from all sides -measely little no good.
Doc3/11/2010 10:23 AM
it's about time the IRB embraced the use of technology fully. Cricket has pioneered this and it is working tremendously. Why have 'TV refs' if you not going to utilise them fully?
Deonic3/11/2010 10:17 AM
The immediate frustration that we have been experiencing is certainly relieved by this reaction from SANZAR. On a strategic level, however, it is a MAJOR step forward for the following reasons; 1 - The fans can see that the referees are not being treated as untouchables. Andre Watson can say what he want, the reality is that too much pressure has been put on the Refereenig structures, and they have yielded in the right direction. 2 - The principle of fairness has certainly been restored as the primary objective in the management of our game. I repeat that it is a MAJOR step in the right direction. I do also postulate the following; Incidents around refereeing has contributed to the decision. Incidents like Willie Roos in Kimberley, the recent ABSA stadium throwing of bottles, Piet van Zyl etc must have played a role in the refs reviewing their attitude. The refs simply had to do something to restore the public's belief in the administration, because we started voting with our feet by staying away from the S14 games. SANZAR management saw dwindling crowds, sensed the problem, and came down on the Refs. Pressure from their bosses as well as the fans became too much. An a personal level, I feel vindicated, because I have been calling for fairness at every possible opportunity, often to the irritation of others here who saw it as whingeing about the refs. I wish to make my position clear, my team, WP, has more often been on the favourable side of biased decisions. Sometimes it has made me cringe with embarrassment. I hope for everybody's sake that this will also get better. Now Mr Watson, please hold the assistant refs accountable as well, and get the TV ref to play a more active role. We are not satisfied yet.
Gerhard3/11/2010 9:59 AM
@Aryan Are you referring to the quarter final , NZ vs France Where Michalak scored from a forward pass? I think the referee on that day was a certain Wayne Barnes, one of the worst refs I everhad the misfortune to lay my eyes on.
@ All anti-Bull surporters3/11/2010 9:55 AM
What the hell has this article to do with the Bulls. What a bunch of pathetic winkers. So insecure and childish. For goodness sake read the article and try contribute something meaningfull. You are wasting everybody's time. We really don't want to read your personal "gemoedsbekakking" on every blog.
Molefe3/11/2010 9:42 AM
Finally! Keep in mind that htese referees recieve a salary for what they do. It is time that they are held to profesional standards! I have sympathy with Pro, but he needs more experiance! It is unfair on both him and the teams involved to expect him to oficiate at this high level. Let him learn the trade in domestic sport, then he will be a much better referee!
Dave3/11/2010 9:39 AM
No black person will ever be good enough or ready in the eyes of some people. Makhaya Ntini was also never ready or good enough, even though he has been playing cricket for donkey years. I am not surprised with the attitude most of your have with Pro Legoete. If you disagree with me, please give me names of black refs whom you believe is good enough to ref at any level in Rugby. I am white by the way.
Frans3/11/2010 9:31 AM
Ag shame to all the Sharks. You are not the only ones being robbed. With the intercept Kankofski was a mile offside but I don't hear you complaining about that. What about that TV try by the Stormers against the Stormers at Newlands. If anyone can show me a grounded ball I'll get myself some glasses. Stop complaining and take responsabilty for you Super 14 disasters. Nobody forced you to select hookers as tightheads and scrumhalves as flyhalves etc.
THERE YOU GO !!!3/11/2010 9:28 AM
All the anger and frustration of our Sharks fans have finally been rewarded. As fellow SA supporter it is quite sad that SANZAR basically admitted that the Sharks were "cheated", but the result still stands. At the end of the competition, the Sharks might need 1 or 2 points and we'll all look back at the Round 4 debacle. I'm a loyal Bulls supporter and all supporters must realize that it could happen to any of our teams. For some reason I just don't trust the AUS Refs. The action taken by SANZAR and the incident on Saturday make me even more suspicious. I don't want to open Pandora's Box, but something smells very close to match fixing. On Saturday Kaplan had to insist on a Yello Card for Beale as Marks had no intention to send the guy off. If you look at Kaplan's face, he was quite surprised and almost shocked. The general conduct of Marks and Stuart Dick (both AUS) are worrying. Pro is simply just incompetent and another example of a PDI that was fast tracked through the system with dire consequences. Don't get me wrong, he might turn into a great ref. The way we sacrifice quality for political bullshit is doing nobody any favours. I might be wrong, but I'm almost sure Pro was also the guy that never cited Luaki for his tackle on Habana last year. Probably the most shocking tackle in the entire history of Super 14.
THERE YOU GO !!!3/11/2010 9:26 AM
All the anger and frustration of our Sharks fans have finally been rewarded. As fellow SA supporter it is quite sad that SANZAR basically admitted that the Sharks were "cheated", but the result still stands. At the end of the competition, the Sharks might need 1 or 2 points and we'll all look back at the Round 4 debacle. I'm a loyal Bulls supporter and all supporters must realize that it could happen to any of our teams. For some reason I just don't trust the AUS Refs. The action taken by SANZAR and the incident on Saturday make me even more suspicious. I don't want to open Pandora's Box, but something smells very close to match fixing. On Saturday Kaplan had to insist on a Yello Card for Beale as Marks had no intention to send the guy off. If you look at Kaplan's face, he was quite surprised and almost shocked. The general conduct of Marks and Stuart Dick (both AUS) are worrying. Pro is simply just incompetent and another example of a PDI that was fast tracked through the system with dire consequences. Don't get me wrong, he might turn into a great ref. The way we sacrifice quality for political bullshit is doing nobody any favours. I might be wrong, but I'm almost sure Pro was also the guy that never cited Luaki for his tackle on Habana last year. Probably the most shocking tackle in the entire history of Super 14.
SME3/11/2010 9:20 AM
He (Watson) said these steps were not anything unusual. “We’ve been doing it for years, but are only stating it openly now.” Mr Watson .......please, this is what we get from the government , a little respect for our intelligence , if it was not for the public ourage ..nothing would have happened.
Dianne3/11/2010 9:18 AM
Long overdue that refs are made accountable for their horrendous mistakes that cost teams their games. Now let them do something radical and reverse the points and award them to the Sharks. That'll make refs think twice for favouring a side! Fine refs at least 50% of their match fee as well. They don't do that for love, do they?
StuartW3/11/2010 9:16 AM
At long last!!!!!!!! hopefully this will give a message to the refs out there to start blowing the 2 teams the same...
deon3/11/2010 9:08 AM
My goodness!. Lyndon Bray was a useless ref.
Andreas3/11/2010 9:08 AM
The one thing that I find funny is that the Sharks should have put the Tah's away regardless. The fact that there were two yellow cards handed out to Shark players now suddenly is forgotten. Whether a penalty try should have been awarded or not is not an excuse for the loss to the Tah's. The Sharks were over the tah's and the game should have been in the bag before the last minute of the game. Maybe first ask the two yellow carded players why they decided to do idiotic things on field and make the game more difficult than needed?!
Aryan3/11/2010 9:00 AM
@ Angry Shark. Get a life....maybe New Zealand should also be handed the 2007 World Cup for the forward pass a certain South African referee so casually missed.
Krulkop3/11/2010 8:58 AM
The big problem is the rules and sub rules and the referees own rules. It is left up to the referee to interpret it. Make it simple and the game will go on. How on earth can anyone interpret the same rule different? Even between two continents.
Pro Legoete3/11/2010 8:54 AM
Sunbonani Bro's. What's all this allegations of yours? You can't blame me for being a bad referee. I didn't have the oppertunity of going through the channels like white referees. Someone asked me 3 years ago to start handling rugby games after I was involve in a under 10 soccer match. Before I realised I handled a u/19 Craven week game, 1 month after that a couple of Vodacup games and here I am, Super 14 for ME. Andre Watson told me to maintain a low level for 4 weeks and then you will see me again.Remember, this is a new SA, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. Just look at comrade Julius and Baba Jacob.
Virginia3/11/2010 8:53 AM
about flippin time, after last weeks match i decided the sport has lost all fareness when a string off unfair decisions against teams cost them matches but there is nothing they can do about it. it does beg the question though -what can the teams do about it. if they admit that they messed up should teams not be awarded points after the fact? Shrks would have won that match had it not been for them not getting the penalty try awarded
Dingbat3/11/2010 8:49 AM
@Stormers also benefit. Julius...Julius...is that you?
Gee3/11/2010 8:49 AM
Well done to SANZAR on dropping these two refs!!! Although it cost the Sharks a definate 4 points and Pro well he also reffed one of the Sharks games, I definately think it affected the outcome of the Sharks/Cheetahs game, I am not saying the Sharks would have won this game , but as soon as Pro came on to ref the Sharks were blown for everything!!!
Angry Shark3/11/2010 8:42 AM
What are the Sharks going to get out of this seeing that everybody agrees that we were robbed? Shouldn't we get the points? HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THE REF F***ING UP,WE WOULD HAVE WON THE MATCH,THIS IS WHAT THIS RULING MEANS. CLEAR AS A FROG'S BACKSIDE.
Mark3/11/2010 8:36 AM
Weldone SANZAR but a bit too late if you ask me
Juan3/11/2010 8:33 AM
Thank You!! Both refs deserve that, I was absolutely shocked at some of Pro's decisions. This will make sure games get blown fairly!
Stormers also benefit3/11/2010 8:33 AM
@ Ronnie - which match were you watching? Stormers have in fact been kept in the hunt due to some favourable refereeing. Their rolling maul tries are dubious. Ball-carrier breaking away from the maul and then re-joining; two players breaking away from the maul and obstructing the defending players. Also noticeable that Stormers obviously use the rolline maul as they do not have much confidence in their backline.
@ bulawayo-based-bok3/11/2010 8:31 AM
Next time you're doing your ant controlling stunt, please let me know, have to see that! And please stay in Bulawayo, keep your racism out of SA.
Navarac3/11/2010 8:29 AM
@ STORM CHASER Rugby in the NH is poles apart from the rugby played in the SH. There were as many complaints about NH referees when they refereed games down south. My personal bugbear is the ref who "conveniently" misses an obvious infringement to the detriment of "my team".
Ben Johnson3/11/2010 8:29 AM
How is this going to help the Sharks now? A fair decision would have been to award the reverse the result of the match and award a win to the Sharks.
@Storm Chaser3/11/2010 8:24 AM
I don't think thst will work, the interpretation of the laws are totally different. Plus we have these experimental laws and they still play 'proper' rugby unlike down here where every year the game takes a 180' turn. Glad this is happening but unfortunate that there will always be inconsistancies, even more so with all these law changes.
Bazz3/11/2010 8:22 AM
Where are all the comments from "Anti-Sharks" who told everyone to stop crying and whingeing now???. You all look like a bunch of frigging ill informed biased idiots now don't you. Marks being dropped is tacit agreement that he erred (for you doffies - everyone agrees he stuffed up!!). Good to see there is a public forum acknowledging errors are made and issues are not being swept under the carpet. Good luck SA teams this weekend. Maybe refs will realise there are public consequences and blow fairly now.
Hennie Smit3/11/2010 8:21 AM
And yet, nobody says a word about "Mr Hollywod" Steve Walsh, who was "making eyes" at the Brumbies frontrow after sending the Lion (Kevin Buys) from the field. Another one who should be sacked!?!?!?
@bulawayo-based-bok3/11/2010 8:20 AM
@bulawayo-based-bok Isn't this funny. South Africans are flocking to Australia running away from AA, only to have an experienced referee being red-carded for bad decisions. To make the matters worse, he is white. That must piss you off
Spartan3/11/2010 8:18 AM
@Paul Marks, 12:28...hahahaha chess & lawn bowls,hahaha.. loved that chirp
Bammy3/11/2010 8:16 AM
Now where are all those people who insisted the Sharks supporters must "grow up" and "stop crying". One can obviously see by SANZARS decision that the ref was wrong and biased. When a player is cited for dangerous play he is usually fined - what happens to the refs? Do they still get to keep their pay? Its all good and well red carding the ref after the game but what about the result? That cannot be changed and it could cost the losing side dearly in the coming months!!! Bottom line - we have to go back to independant refs for each game.
peter 3/11/2010 8:16 AM
These 2 refs cost the Sharks the games against the Cheetahs and the Waratahs, what happened to the idiot rookie NZ ref who blew the Sharks/ Chiefs games, is he still on the panel? Funny with all the bad decisions the common denominator is the Sharks, no wonder they are played 4 lost 4. This weekend the Sharks get another rookie NZ ref! What is going on??To those few Bulls supporters (note I do not use the words "all Bulls" supporters) who agreed with Marks please be man enough to admit you were wrong and go and learn the rules of the game. The rest of the SA teams can be thankful these idiots are a thing of the past.
Johno 3/11/2010 8:12 AM
Well done! Finally something has been done with those referees but now what about Steve Welsh that are the worst referee ever. He reminds me of Roos!
Duncan3/11/2010 8:12 AM
@ Chris in OZ Unfortunately Pro will be given a LOT of slack by SA rugby, as the powers that be would like to see referees of colour at the top level. I agree he's not good enough, and it's not his fault, but it is what it is and you'll see him again, you can bet on it!
Nice One3/11/2010 8:11 AM
SHARKS STILL LOST >>>
CMan3/11/2010 8:10 AM
Unfortunately the damage has already been done. Too little too late. Referees should be sifted before the start of the season. Why should we allow bad refs to make mistakes when teams can least afford it.
justice has been done3/11/2010 8:07 AM
what about Paul's boyfriend Steve Walsh. I don't think the Aussies will win another game knowing that the refs you help them will be red carded
ockert3/11/2010 8:07 AM
Pro Legoete cost the Cheetahs 3 games last year at least 12 points on the log. Two games as Referee and one as Touch Judge. He should never be allowed to officiate a game that the Cheetahs play in as it seems as if he has his knife in for them.
p1233/11/2010 8:03 AM
Well this doesn't help the Sharks does it!!!
@bulawayo-based-bok3/11/2010 8:01 AM
Did you also not read that a more experienced "white" ref got red carded as well. It has got nothing to do with the colour of a persons skin but the ability the person has. I am white and think your comment is stupid and unwarranted. I would like to see you control a group of ants ....moron!
@Ronnie3/11/2010 8:00 AM
I agree Ronnie Joubert and also Jonker should get the boot. Sanzar should finish what they have started and get rid off all the rubbish now. Geez who'd be a ref though!!!
Peet G43/11/2010 7:53 AM
@Ronnie. You don't need to tell that you are not a Stormers fan - everybody can see you are a Cannabis fan.
LOL3/11/2010 7:53 AM
Paul Mark's comment's are hilarious - thanks for making me laugh.
Ian3/11/2010 7:53 AM
i agree with ronnie-craig joubert cost us(stormers) the brumbies game...about time refs got booted for bad performances, and yes, our Pro Legoete is also a kak referee...
Sharks Supporter @ Paul Marks3/11/2010 7:53 AM
Well Paul when you put it like that all's forgiven.
Excalibur3/11/2010 7:52 AM
Too late for the Sharks. 3 points gone, a valuable away win stolen.
Frans3/11/2010 7:51 AM
I've got no problem with red carding refs, but it looks to me that some of them must carry the brunt for the more "knowledgeable's" mistakes. I think for instance that Mark Lawrence had a poor game by his standards last weekend. Penalty try or no penalty try. I just want to ask mr. Watson an objective an logical question. "How can any one be sure that Kanskovski would not have knocked the ball on' If you can, fair enough. Just remember rugby rules are not rocket science and most of us can google and read.
Vaste 63/11/2010 7:50 AM
Good decision, however, the impact that it has on the log for the Sharks is still disastrous. That should be rectified as well, and the Warathas can hold him responsible for their reversal of fortune. Right is right.
Jakes3/11/2010 7:48 AM
Ronnie, are you perhaps a Sharks fan that is now supporting the Stormers because your team is useless this year? Regarding the refs, this is good news, but they must be careful that it don't get out of hand, so that they don't end up with players complaining about the ref every time they lose a game, and we end up with no referees.Be honest, if your team win, that is what counts, then you don't complain about the ref. Some you win, some you lose.Also, I must admit, we as South Africans had some shocking decisions against us through the years, remember Ruben Kruger's try in the WC?
Unabashed Dutchman3/11/2010 7:48 AM
@ Bulawayo-based-bok: That was my first reaction this morning when I read this story in Beeld. AA and quotas don't work, not with players and not with referees. SA Rugby can fool themselves by thinking that quotas are working, but not the international rugby community. Train them before you field them!
Edwin3/11/2010 7:47 AM
Man we saffers are a bunch of moaners. If that was our team winning and our ref NOTHING would have been reported. If they set a trend now with these then by next week we should be without all the south african refs- specially the afrikaans ones cause they hilarious when they talk on the field!!!
Loudmouth3/11/2010 7:45 AM
What about the abyssmal reffing of Steve Walsh, that man couldnt officiate a raffle
Sh@rks fever3/11/2010 7:42 AM
Well done SANZAR. In my opinion they should revert straight back to neutral refereeing. For SANZAR not to do this is the same as Marks did by yellow carding Beale without giving a penalty try. Alternatively hopefully it will give these Kak referees a wake up call. Remember REFS. You are there for rugby. Rugby is not there for you and Rugby is there for the fans who watch and the fans watch and the sponsors sponsor and make money this way. If the fans stop watching because the refs are killing the game the sponsors will stop, rugby will die and you will be without a job. That is the big picture of it. And by the way not all refs are bad.
Blue Jake3/11/2010 7:41 AM
@Ronnie. Not a Stormers fan? Go talk kak somewhere else.
John3/11/2010 7:41 AM
Good on ya mate! About friggen time. Perhaps now we may see unbias referees. His name escapes me but the guy that blew the Lions / Brumbies game is lucky he did not get the chop.
Shame3/11/2010 7:37 AM
Do you know how difficult it is to control a group of ants? - LOL!!!!
MIke JJ 3/11/2010 7:35 AM
Great news ! (Some) refs have been ruining the game. I also believe that sub-standard performances should lead to the ref at fault receivng a fine - why not, they are paid professionals?
Imboriako3/11/2010 7:32 AM
There we go now....about time..red card Andre watson also for all his cover ups and send him packing to another career because he personally has damaged so many rugby players careers...and to all those Bulls wankers who make immature comments about any team who complains go suck eggs now and choke on your words...your bribing days are coming to an end soon...and then the playing fields will be even...in fact the southern spears will end up taking your place when you get relegated. about time SANZAR. too little too late....now catch a real wake up and watch EVERY bulls game with a microscope and you will find their personal refs are exactly the same.
Joan3/11/2010 7:30 AM
At last!!!! This is fantastic news. Please do the same with the assistant-refs and the TV-refs.
Chiduli3/11/2010 7:30 AM
The players are expected to adhere to the laws prescribed by the IRB in a professional manner, its about time referees did the same, and are reprimanded if not!!
anti Aussie3/11/2010 7:28 AM
@Paul marks - i like your article thanks for the laugh !
Albert Einstein3/11/2010 7:24 AM
We are going to run out of refs this season, und san??
Carey3/11/2010 7:21 AM
Glad to see that Paul Marks won't be able to cause further damage, but unfortunately this does not give the Sharks the win they deserved. I'm sick of watching the wrong team win because of useless referees.
Conrad Brits3/11/2010 7:19 AM
bulawayo-based-bok, you really have it screwed arround. This has nothing to do with race or politics - IT IS ABOUT RUGBY! Word wakker man.
Rugby fan3/11/2010 7:05 AM
There is a very easy solution to bad decisions by refs. Give each team a chance to challenge 2 or 3 decisions in each game and let the TV ref decide.
sharon3/11/2010 6:52 AM
Boots & All, newspapers, news 24 etc have never addressed the issue on the inconsistancy of the referees. Players get sited in one game & then another game the same happens & nothing happens to the players. Why only now is something happening about the bad referees & lines man. Another issue that needs to be address is the TV ref, he is pathetic, has anybody timed him how long he takes on a decision.
Blue Jake3/11/2010 6:40 AM
Somebody should have canned Pro before he also showed total disregard for the rulse when he blew the Blue Bulls of the park against Province last year. Then nobody complained that he was a sad waste of human life.
Anti ANZ3/11/2010 6:13 AM
Good on the panel. (poo)Paul Marks should've gone long ago. Maybe the panel should look at Steve Walsh as well. He is blatantly against SA
DGWB3/11/2010 5:55 AM
Dankie tog SANZAR vir 'n slag beteken julle iets Plus julle spaar my 'n KLOMP geld want anders moes ek op 'n vliegtuig klim Australia toe om Paul Marks se tandjies een vir een uit te slaan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peter3/11/2010 5:48 AM
@Gunnar.lets face it, in South Africa race will always be an issue while we have affirmative action, quotas, BEE and all the othe fancy titles the 'new" government give it.The world doesn't give a damn about it, if you are not good enough, thats it, you are out.No room for "oh ,you poor previously disadvantaged person, here, have a handout". Nope, its time we stopped it as well. The past is just that. Move on.And Legoete had poor game and a half...were you watching?
George 3/11/2010 4:56 AM
Now Marks must be investigated for matchfixing. If decisions only go one way then it is obvious that there is more to it .....
kevin3/11/2010 4:23 AM
About time. We have been robbed ever since SANZAR started. This is shamefull that SARU are only now doing something. I have seen 20 mins injury time(after the hooter sounded) against the Lions/crusaders as soon the Crusaders scored the ref blew the whistle. We got rorted last week in 3 games but we won two. The opposition get all the advantages like offsides, playing the ball on the ground, offsides and last year got away with spear tackles where we got pinged.
sean3/11/2010 3:10 AM
@Gunnar !!! Why you running away from facts !! IN S.A COLOUR PLAYS A BIG ROLE !!!
Bulls Rule3/11/2010 2:40 AM
Pro and Paul couldnt control a bunch of garden gnomes. SANZAR, dont pat yourself on the back, you guys are useless and should have done this immediately after the game, not have waited until the fans & players pointed this out to you. The Ref Panel should be RED carded.
Koos3/11/2010 2:26 AM
Well done, why not now award the game to the Sharks, surely that can be done.
Alibaba3/11/2010 1:38 AM
I'll bet my whole bonus in June that Legoethe will be back soon - thanks to politics in SA - and that Stofile or one of his buddies will soon have something to say about it.
Shaun 3/11/2010 1:37 AM
Fortunately SANZAR don't have to be BEE compliant. Not saying Pro won't make it one day, but he is definitely not ready....
Ronnie3/11/2010 1:11 AM
WHAT ABOUT THAT USELESS JOUBERT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD TO GO BLOW AT PRIMARY SCHOOL LEVEL BECAUSE OF HIM THE STORMERS AR NOT NO 1 AND NO IM NOT A STORMERS FAN
Ref-Critic3/11/2010 12:47 AM
SANZAR must have a review panel to review every match after it was played and then hammer the bad refs.
STORM CHASER3/11/2010 12:41 AM
Easy way to end the bias use northern hemishere refs in southern hemisphere games and visa vera!
Gunnar3/11/2010 12:30 AM
Sorry to see somebody bringing up colour. Some years ago even the news papers did not tell us the colour of the driver in an accident!
Paul Marks3/11/2010 12:28 AM
Hey guys. Please don't be so angry towards me. Let me explain: You guys have the Super 14 trophy over in Saffer-land. You also have the Tri-nations trophy over there. And let's not forget the shiny golden cup you won in 2007 in Paris. You have a lot of supporters. You have real braai's, while we have to make do with gas "baarbies". You have biltong. If I did not intervene in the whole matter my beloved light blue team would have lost. That would have resulted in rugby slipping from the 4th favourite sport in Australia down to probably the 10th or 11th, behind chess and lawn bowls. I could not have had that happen. Please let us also have some of that silverware. We have these lovely trophy cabinets installed at the SFS. With glass windows and high tech security features, the lot. But it is only gathering dust at the moment. I hope the Queen knights me for the service I gave to my country.
Chris in Oz3/10/2010 11:48 PM
This is good news. But what is Andre Watson smoking? This is not the first time Pro Legoete's performance needed "management". Face it he is not good enough. He shouldn't be allowed to handle an under 9 game. About Paul Marks: good riddance to bad rubbish.
janet3/10/2010 11:26 PM
Why the heck would anyone want Australians (Paul Marks) to officiate any sport with South Africa. Don't you know they're biased?
sr3/10/2010 11:15 PM
Good on you - well done SANZAR!
Gemsbok3/10/2010 11:05 PM
My prayers over many years have been answered. Our officials have seen the light!!! Halleluja!!! for far to long the refs had a field day and over all these years the public complained on open forums like this about bad decisions by referees. Thats why a guy like van Zyl tackled that asshole ref a couple of years ago. The public and not to mention the players had to to accept their shitty decisions. Every week players were sighted based on TV replays. I surely hope that this will open the way for better refereeing. I am not a Sharks supporter but they lost that match due to a KAK referee and it cost them dearly. Thanks Mr Watson for waking up!
bulawayo-based-bok3/10/2010 11:03 PM
hahaha......this is hilarious! SA rugby are putting forward black referees only to be red-carded after 120 mins of officiating hahaha......Legoete couldn't control a group of ants!
ImpartialCanuck3/10/2010 10:53 PM
It is good to see some action by SANZAR, but what about the outcome of the games? Also hope to see the IRB getting tougher on it's refs this season, after some inconsistencies last year.
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