Vodacom Super 14

Carlos laments poor crowds

2010-03-10 10:39
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Carlos Spencer (File)

Sydney - After 14 years of top-flight rugby, he knows what lifts the players, writes RugbyHeaven columnist, Rupert Guinness.

The memory is as vivid today as it was 14 years ago, when ''King'' Carlos Spencer was at the height of his powers as one of the world's leading flyhalves. It is the memory of rugby stadiums throughout the southern hemisphere packed to the rafters with frenzied crowds baying for the opposing players' blood.

Today, aged 34 and four rounds into his return to Super Rugby after five years playing in England, Spencer laments the drop in crowds and the lack of ''atmosphere'' and ''buzz''.

He is grateful for the opportunity offered to him by the Lions after stints with Gloucester and Northampton - a two-year deal that will incorporate him coaching their Golden Lions in the Currie Cup - but he remains perplexed by Super Rugby's failure to attract the healthy crowds it once did.

''One thing I have noticed is that (southern hemisphere) crowds are definitely not as big as they used to be five, six or seven years ago,'' Spencer told the Herald.

He began his Super Rugby career in 1996 with the Blues.

''When I left New Zealand we used to get 20 000-30 000 every (home) game. Now you struggle to get 10 000. Are we playing too many games and people getting bored of rugby? It is a question that we have to find out (an answer to) and fix. I suppose you have to ask the fans.

''We would pack out Eden Park every home game. Then I used to watch it on TV in the UK. I saw so many seats and thought: 'What's happening?'''

Spencer, who has 99 Super caps to his name after earning three with the Lions this year to add to his impressive tally with the Blues, says most players ''thrive'' off playing before a full house.

''That's what we play for - to run out through the tunnel and hear a full stadium,'' he says. ''It was even better when we went to South Africa. Those stadiums are right on top of you. Mate, there is nothing better than playing rugby in front of 40 000-50 000 South Africans cheering for your blood.''

The likelihood is that Spencer won't get to celebrate his 100th Super game before such a crowd against the Waratahs at the Sydney Football Stadium on Friday night. The Waratahs, 10th on the ladder, attracted just 20 651 to the 44 000-capacity SFS for their first home game of the season against the Sharks last Saturday. After being booed despite their win, the Waratahs will be pressed to match that number against the 13th-placed Lions - even though their captain, Phil Waugh, will surpass Chris Whitaker as the most capped Waratah by playing his 119th game.

But Spencer won't let that deflate him. He agrees that the Waratahs' 25-21 win against the Sharks ''wasn't a great spectacle'', but feels they were ''unlucky'' to lose against the defending champion Bulls the previous week. ''They will be a different side. I am sure they will have freshened up for Friday night. I think they will be a different team to what we saw against the Sharks.''

A subplot to Friday's game for Spencer is the grand plan to develop the Lions into a strong Super and Currie Cup side in his role as both player and coach.

''I wanted to come out and help a team that had struggled. I thought I could help the team achieve its goals over the next couple of years,'' Spencer says. ''I knew (coach) Dick Muir was there and had heard great things about him and thought it would be great to work with Dick for a couple of years.''

Spencer has had no trouble settling in to South Africa where he, his wife Jodene and children - five-year-old Payton and three-year-old Asha - live in the suburb of Sandton.

''I enjoy the lifestyle, the weather, the food, the people,'' he says.

''Every time I have toured there I have come back saying I love the place.''

What about the biltong? Does Spencer really eat it? ''I do. I love it,'' he says. ''Biltong's nice … good for ya! Very high in protein.''

 

Your Comments

Willa3/10/2010 9:41 PM
If you haven't been to Coke-park in the last year, you'd be making comments about how crap the area is. It's not the same. It's changed a lot. Beer tent, Cadac corner and the area around the park has been cleaned up. With the new Parkade, parking isn't an issue. Carlos is referring to all the stadiums, not just JHB.
Loud Lion3/10/2010 5:45 PM
yawn... The "Coke Tin" holds 60 000. That is the BIGGEST of all the sides playing in Super 14. Not to mention the fact that it is in the CRAPPEST part of the city with huge security issues and F all parking!! even if you won games and champoinships like the Bulls, you couldnt sell that stadium out.
Scottie3/10/2010 4:28 PM
Empty stands and waning support equals complicating rules and constant changing of it. We spectators can't follow it anymore neither can the refs. Listen to them: "Stand back! Stand forward! Stand sideways! Ball's out! Balls in! Kick! Don't kick! Moer him! Don't moer him! Stay! Go!" What a load of modern crap. Imagine a cricket umpire doing instructions all the time to the batsman/bowler! Would be a circus - like rugby has become. Not the same game I played twenty years ago. Sad. Sad. Sad.
Birdman3/10/2010 3:58 PM
Due to the incomprehensible new laws and the blatant cheating by the "home" refs I have decided not to watch another rugby match on TV, let alone go and watch a game at Kingspark! I cannot fathom what the Rugby bosses think they're doing by changing the rules every 5 minutes. Leave the game alone and sort out the refs. It's about time that they use the TV ref to overide certain "incorrect" decisions by the whistle blower. It's getting so out of hand now that I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that the game is decided before kickoff!
MitchH3/10/2010 3:53 PM
@Paul C: You have no idea what you're talking about. Rugby is as exciting as it ever was! Do yourself a favour and flick over to ESPN once in a while and have a look at games from previous World Cups. They're slow! Rugby is being played at a pace like never before today! Rugby players are bigger, stronger and faster today than they've ever been! The game is being played at a frenetic pace - even S14 games are faster than Test matches of 5, 6 years ago! There's nothing wrong with the game today, my life revolves around it! People have just become so used to a society based on instant gratification and excitement that we can't appreciate a good game of rugby anymore. We're used to everything else being served and packaged to be filled with MAXIMUM entertainment and one action packed minute after the next! It's saddens me that this great game I love is being turned into a rugby league circus!
MitchH3/10/2010 3:37 PM
Those of you saying there's too much rugby, please explain why European football stadiums are ALWAYS sold out. In fact, you can't even get tickets for games unless you're a member of the club. Football in Europe is played almost constantly, way more than rugby! Surely the amount of rugby can't be the problem unless you're insinuating that rugby is not as exciting as football or football fans are just more passionate about their sport than rugby fans... Can this be true?
Chris3/10/2010 3:11 PM
Sakkie Sidedraft !!!!!!!! 100% Instead of reducing the SUPER RUGBY they go for another Aus. team. The best thing was that we didnt get the extra team. Neither SA or AUS have the quality players to produce another COMPETITIVE team. I know the Spears think they can field 15 players but to get quality players will mean they will have to get them from current Super rugby teams. REDUCE Super rugby to the top 10 teams and have more time to rest and more time for the Curriecup(CC). Same for the CC. Have strength against strength. Top 6 sides in a double round and the team that ends last have a three game promotion relegation against the best of the B section. Let them have 10 teams playing each other once and semis and final. Crowds will eb abck to watch Super rugby and CC
Paul C3/10/2010 2:36 PM
One of the problems ... rugby union has become a never ending, boring, wrestle match, scrum (beyond boring) upon scrum (beyond boring) upon up and under upon scrum (beyond boring) upon running into opposition upon ... good heavens ... where are the days when we saw blistering and powerful wings ... charging down the field ... swift three quarters with nimble footwork and exceptional fluent backline moves! Fast hands and swift speed ... Those were the days my son.
Living Abroad3/10/2010 2:13 PM
I have been living away from SA for four years. One thing I have promised myself when I go home in May permanently is to watch as much live rugby as much possible - you realise what you have when you don't have it... That said - part of the issue with dwindling crowds is the lack of emotion for some teams and even more for their performance. To get to the stadium you need to be emotionally connected to the team you support - enough to get up off your backside, leave the remote behind and get to the match. there also needs to be a semi chance of them winning :)) We need more tradition in all aspects and less commercialism. Even the AB vs Boks is now too commercialized - it should always be something special. Imagine a Lions tour every year - it would be well supported for exactly two years and the crowds would dissapear - guaranteed. Do it every 4 and you are sure of support. Its simple logic but rugby administrators are not always sharpest at long terms strategy - way to much politics and short terms gains. TV rights will also eventually dwindle if people are not connected to the game! Poor crowds = poor administration. The product is good but needs to be packaged better.
Boet3/10/2010 1:56 PM
@Dingbat - your pozzie sounds quite nice, but where do you keep the "bear"? Dangerous, those things. . .
Boet3/10/2010 1:22 PM
@Shark - Well spoken, lad! Could not agree with you more. Action replays are where it's at! Even if you have good seats right on the halfway line and maybe 20 or 30 metres from the touchline for some nice elevation or in a box, which is further still, the action is sometimes more than 50 - 100 metres away from you. Not to mention the cheap seats up there in the nosebleeds! No way can you tell what Brussow or Mccaw is doing at the bottom of that ruck! And of course the other advantage you forgot: being able to light the fire halftime! The other problem, as some other people noted, is of course that King Carlos nowadays only ever gets to observe the crowds at Lions games. The location of the stadium and the team's track record won't make for sell-out crowds. But even being a Bulls supporter (don't throw stones, please!), I don't go to games at Loftus if I can help it. The scenario at home as you so eloquently described it is much too sweet!
Dingbat@Shark3/10/2010 1:12 PM
I couldn't agree more. This HDTV is addictive. Another advantage is that one can rewind and slowmow whenever required. The surround sound through my sound system creates an egual atmosphere to a stadium. Also, instead of leaving the stadium and minding the traffic, I fetch another bear and watch the next games back to back. Sorry Carlos.......
Martin @ JAY3/10/2010 1:12 PM
You are right, its filthy and you don't know if your car is going to be okay or even there when you get back, rather watch the game at home... and the prices is also much more the soccer games???
Daniel3/10/2010 1:08 PM
who would want to watch the lions? Try winning a few games to get us curious
Martin @ JAY3/10/2010 1:06 PM
You are right, its filthy and you don't know if your car is going to be okay or even there when you get back, rather watch the game at home... and the prices is also much more the soccer games???
C.K3/10/2010 1:04 PM
And the answer is.... Not too much rugby. In fact not enough rugby, at least for Aussie crowds. To look at Aussie crowd attendances first. League is being played throughout the year in Aus, that's why people go to league games (don't ask me why they find it entertaining.... boring as!) Secondly, NZ crowds. Rugby starts too early here. Crowds will pick up this month. Last, but not least, Saffa crowds. Newlands and Loftus is mostly packed. Ellis park is empty, because all their supporters are moving to the Cape and hence the Lions have no more supporters. The Sharks, well they are losing at the moment, so their supporters have abandoned them. Go Stormers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buffalo3/10/2010 12:58 PM
Every comment so far is the true. Nuf said.
skywalker3/10/2010 12:37 PM
Who the hell wants to get mugged or murdered at the 'coke tin'..?
Shark3/10/2010 12:18 PM
Ice cold beer in my fridge, ample parking in my garage, HD TV & lazy boy in my lounge!
JAY3/10/2010 12:13 PM
I will always be a Lions supporter, regardless of their results. But I will not go to the Jo'burg stadium due to it's very location (used to be a season ticket holder back in the days that it was a safe and pleasant area). Pleeease build us a stadium in an accessible and safe area. I'm sure the players will then perform better because they won't be so stressed out by having to travel to such a dangerous and filthy suburb! Go, Lions, your glory days will return and you will be super champions again!!!
Grace3/10/2010 12:12 PM
I am a big fan of international rugby and watchas many games as I can, was fortunate enough to see the Blue Bulls - Warratah's game at the bull ring and saw empty seats which to me was a rude awakening. I think the problems are:- 1:-) ticket prices. 2:-) Changing the rules of the game on a continous basis. 3:-) The referees not held accountable for bad decissions. 4:-) The greed of all involved wanting a slice of the pie.
Anonymous3/10/2010 12:11 PM
It's all about the money these days, not really about playing the best rugby which will atttract the fans!!!!!!
Koos van der Merwe3/10/2010 11:53 AM
Straight forward Carlos my son. If you play kak(bad for you Carlos)) rugby, you will get kak( empty stadiums for you Carlos) support.
Allan3/10/2010 11:45 AM
Ellis park is to big to fill...we need a smaller staduim closer to the people! a 15 - 20 000 seater close to the people where you have to battle to get tikets! Ellis parks is in the middle of town and can be used for large internation games but not for super 14 week in and week out...
Duncan3/10/2010 11:42 AM
Far Far to much rugby. Far Far to Commercial.
Alibaba3/10/2010 11:39 AM
And it is "jeering for your blood", not "cheering for you blood."
PIP3/10/2010 11:37 AM
wake up Spencer, its because the Lions are playing.................... and hen they play at home the stadium is situated in a turd hole
Adri3/10/2010 11:34 AM
Richard I can't agree more. Simplify the game and go back to Rugby rules as we know it. I want to see wings with space to move in not standing next to the touch line chasing up and unders for 80 min.
Alibaba3/10/2010 11:33 AM
He's just never played for the Lions, man.
Mike3/10/2010 11:32 AM
Referees are ruining the game. I will not waste my money to watch some incompetent plonker make ridiculous calls time and time again. On top of that there is no accountability and we are just told to accept their incompetence and bias. PS the IRB is not helping the refs by changing the rules every year.
Fred3/10/2010 11:32 AM
Rugby is a sport primarily supported by white folks in SA. There are less and less white folk around, or white folk that can afford tickets (there are the guys currently being discriminated against for previously discriminating against black folk), so the crowds will become smaller and smaller.
Joe3/10/2010 11:25 AM
Many 'fans' today are far too fickle supporters. When their team is winning, they go watch games (i get it - people like to win) - but when loosing, their support wanes and they find something else to do under the premise of "they will probably loose anyway". I think the age old die hard fan is what is gone. Perhaps it is time people stand by their convictions, and support their teams when they need them the most!
piet3/10/2010 11:22 AM
Definately far too much rugby. Can turn on the tellie any weekend of the year now and watch. The professionalism and big fat corporate egos have ruined the game and its not going to get any better. we keep lining their pockets. Used to look forward to the games but now couldnt care less. Its overkill and on a massive scale
Sakkie Sidedraft3/10/2010 11:22 AM
S14 is duimb. The biggest crowds are the local derbies, that what the people want to see. Give me a full strength CC any day over the Super 14.
Eduard3/10/2010 11:22 AM
The problem with our attendance is briefly as follow : 1) Ticket prices 2) Traffic/security and roadworks in JHB/Pretoria 3) Bars are overfull and usually out of stock at staduims 4) We have bigscreens at our homes and can watch the rugby without the hassles of above
Jacques3/10/2010 11:21 AM
WAKE up Carlos - no one goes to Lions games because they always end up at the bottom of the log. who wants to waste time and money to go and watch a bunch of losers.
anton3/10/2010 11:18 AM
The crowds are poor because you're playing for the Lions. Who would want to pay money to watch them?
Kosie van Pretoria3/10/2010 11:17 AM
I know it is easy to say coming from a Bulls supporter but come on guys lets support our SA teams. The Cheetahs are on the up and they will have their way with some Aus/NZ teams as to my pleasure. I know the Lions are struggling but lets admit it they are no more the push over team. They will smack a couple of big names this season(Bulls take note!) and I see good things coming from them in the near future - just keep the talent in Joburg. As for the Sharks guys you need not worry, you have already made a comeback, the Ref and some very negative play from the opposition cost you the game, you are still dangerous to any team. Stormers guys, well done, you are by far the best team defensively and on your way to the top this season. As for my beloved Bulls team, keep it up guys, I enjoy every minute. Lets klap those Aus/NZ teams - Aus especiallly.
Francois3/10/2010 11:12 AM
With all due respect to the King. You're playing for the Lions now so what did you expect? They can't even fill up half a stand when playing at home, not even to mention away games.
Excalibur3/10/2010 11:09 AM
Getting the fans back is easy. Start winning.
Bullpeanut3/10/2010 11:07 AM
Maybe play 80 minutes full-out, before commenting on the amount of games :-) Trying to reduce the amount of rugby played in a single game won't lead to any wins... I do hope the Lions will whip the Tahs, but it will be a tough ask. The question of too many matches is one that's been debated to death, and I suppose it will continue for a while still.
Jan Bantjies3/10/2010 11:07 AM
I`m a fan and I believe there is too much rugby. The people charged with running rugby see only business plans, budgets and spread sheets, nothing else. But to say that is the only reason I don`t watch rugby anymore is an over simplification. I`m frustrated by the general attitude of the officials - 'holier than thou'. This includes many refs who blatantly make "mistakes", then nothing is done to censure them. The higher up the ladder you go the more crap is fed to the fans. They insult our intellegence by saying for instance that "Refs don`t have much of a influence on the outcomes of games - Andre Watson - The game also seems to attract quasi psycopaths to the ranks of the players. The majority of them love themselves to death. The games also seem to be won by the team that cheats the best. Rugby encourages - nay - coaches unlawful play. Rugby players often boast how they punched this one or hurt that one and are held in awe for it by their audience. The officials also don`t hold themselves to the same standards they put in place for players.
Jan3/10/2010 11:05 AM
Don't think the "Sandtonites" will appreciate being referred to as living in a suburb of Johannesburg. :-)
delboy3/10/2010 11:04 AM
it is simple people will support winning teams - you win you fill stadiums - you loose you pay the price !
Richard3/10/2010 11:04 AM
ALL THE RULE CHANGES, THE POWER THAT BE ARE TRYING TO TURN THE GAME INTO RUGBY LEAGUE, AS WELL AS REF ``INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES`` WERE DIVING OVER THE SCRUM GET PENALISED BY ONE REF AND ALLOWED BY THE NEXT AND FLAT PASSES NOT BEEN CALLED FORWARD ONE WEEK AND NOT THE NEXT. GO BACK TO THE RULES OF 5 TO 6 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU COULD RUCK A PLAYER OUT OF THE MAUL. AND THE SCRUMS ARE NOW A JOKE
dubloki3/10/2010 10:52 AM
Shame. Someone should have told Carolos not to expect too much of a JHB crowd.
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