News24

SA’s ‘S16’ hopes fading fast?

2012-02-14 11:15

Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer

Cape Town – Latest official and media noises from the terrain of South African rugby’s SANZAR partners suggest any hopes of an expansion of Super Rugby to 16 teams to accommodate the problematic Southern Kings are increasingly forlorn.

The message to SA Rugby seems clear from Australia, in particular, and probably also New Zealand: if you want to fit in the Kings next year, it will still have to be as part of a five-team conference.

SANZAR’s Sydney-based but NZ-hailing chief executive Greg Peters is quoted on the website www.Keo.co.za on Tuesday as saying: “How the Kings are accommodated is a domestic issue for South Africa.

“While we are always open to dialogue ...   it is incumbent on them (SARU) to make the necessary adjustments to facilitate the Kings’ inclusion.”

His words come shortly after weekend media reports in South Africa that the existing SA franchises in Super Rugby would consider boycotting the event if one of them gets the chop to make room for the Eastern Cape-based Kings.

Meanwhile Australian press sentiment seems unfavourably disposed also toward the idea of an expansion of the tournament from 2013 to a Super 16, with the big structural changes to the three-conference, 15-team format that would require.

Columnist Greg Growden, in the influential Sydney Morning Herald, on Tuesday penned a piece under a headline “Sulking South Africans stand no chance of adding to Super quota”.

Perhaps a little unfairly -- considering that one of the current five SA franchises clearly has much to lose if the Kings do end up elbowing them out of the lucrative mix – he chose to add it to a perceived catalogue of South African “whinges” about Super Rugby.

“It’s February, the Super Rugby season is about to start and – shock, horror – the South African provinces are having an almighty whinge.

“So what’s new? One year, they are complaining that the tournament scheduling is unfair because, they argue, it favours the Australian and New Zealand teams.

“The next, they are moaning about wanting to head to Europe because they play in the same time zone.

“Now they are complaining that they don’t have enough teams in the tournament – and that if the tournament isn’t expanded from a Super 15 to Super 16, they will boycott the event.

“Forget about it. It’s not going to happen. It is just the latest in a long line of the type of political bluster of which SA rugby officials are the masters.”

Growden said SARU would keep lobbying their Australian and New Zealand partners to get an extra team, but they have no hope of success.

“The Super 15 will remain the Super 15 until at least 2016 (when the latest television rights deal ends). One SA province will have to go to allow the Kings to come in. End of story.”

If some of Growden’s comments seem a tad crude and unscientific about South Africa’s dilemma, they do at least appear to hint at strong Antipodean sentiment not to meddle with the status quo for the time being.

The Kings’ “ball” could be very much in a South African court ...

Sport24

Comments
  • Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:20

    If SARU really want the Kings to play Super rugby there is only one option: 1)Bottom SA side drops out!!

      Alistair - 2012-02-14 11:31

      What if the Kings are below the capability of the "bottom" SA side?

      Alistair - 2012-02-14 11:31

      What if the Kings are below the capability of the "bottom" SA side?

      Bulldozer - 2012-02-14 11:35

      Just get rid of the Stormers. Disgrace to world rugby.

      Bulldozer - 2012-02-14 11:35

      Just get rid of the Stormers. Disgrace to world rugby.

      jrheeder - 2012-02-14 11:36

      The bottom side would still THRASH the kings, so if they made a promotion relegation match whereby the kings could still face the super rugby wooden spoon team then I would agree, because the kings will lose every time. Rotating the 5th team with the kings would only serve to cripple the unlucky franchise that finishes 5th (cheetahs and Lions). Considering how much talent these two sides actually turn out(poaching is an entirely different story), SARU would be doing the equivalent of chewing off the hand that feeds itself.

      jrheeder - 2012-02-14 11:36

      The bottom side would still THRASH the kings, so if they made a promotion relegation match whereby the kings could still face the super rugby wooden spoon team then I would agree, because the kings will lose every time. Rotating the 5th team with the kings would only serve to cripple the unlucky franchise that finishes 5th (cheetahs and Lions). Considering how much talent these two sides actually turn out(poaching is an entirely different story), SARU would be doing the equivalent of chewing off the hand that feeds itself.

      Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:40

      Hello Dozey or should I say Shane:):) What you think of Bulls and Lions joining forces??? The problem is SARU made a promise to the Kings that they will play Super rugby next year and they have got to find away for them to get in!!!

      Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:40

      Hello Dozey or should I say Shane:):) What you think of Bulls and Lions joining forces??? The problem is SARU made a promise to the Kings that they will play Super rugby next year and they have got to find away for them to get in!!!

      Bulldozer - 2012-02-14 11:43

      It's Dozey, please. No merging between Bulls and anybody, thank you. Die swakste span moet maar uitval.

      Bulldozer - 2012-02-14 11:43

      It's Dozey, please. No merging between Bulls and anybody, thank you. Die swakste span moet maar uitval.

      a.j.bosch - 2012-02-14 11:48

      Hey bulldozer your avatar is the wrong colour it should be pink.

      a.j.bosch - 2012-02-14 11:48

      Hey bulldozer your avatar is the wrong colour it should be pink.

      Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:49

      Dozey it is!!!!!As ek die Bulls was sou ek baie bekommered wees dan:):):)

      Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:49

      Dozey it is!!!!!As ek die Bulls was sou ek baie bekommered wees dan:):):)

      Jason - 2012-02-14 11:53

      Stormers a disgrace to world rugby? thats a little harsh coming from the newly named Fluffy Marshmallows isnt it? If it has to be done then I say a 3 game relegation series. SA wooden spoon team against the Kings!

      Jason - 2012-02-14 11:53

      Stormers a disgrace to world rugby? thats a little harsh coming from the newly named Fluffy Marshmallows isnt it? If it has to be done then I say a 3 game relegation series. SA wooden spoon team against the Kings!

      Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:57

      Agree with you Jay!!!!

      Lionel - 2012-02-14 11:57

      Agree with you Jay!!!!

      Penny-wise - 2012-02-14 12:22

      The only solution is for SARU to backtrack on their ridiculous committment concerning the Kings. It's quite simple. The bottom 2 SA teams play in a short tri-series tournament. Whichever team finishes last, DOES NOT play in the Super 15.

      Penny-wise - 2012-02-14 12:22

      The only solution is for SARU to backtrack on their ridiculous committment concerning the Kings. It's quite simple. The bottom 2 SA teams play in a short tri-series tournament. Whichever team finishes last, DOES NOT play in the Super 15.

      Penny-wise - 2012-02-14 12:23

      The original SARU decision was a STUPID one. That's the problem here.

      Penny-wise - 2012-02-14 12:23

      The original SARU decision was a STUPID one. That's the problem here.

      Dwerg - 2012-02-14 12:24

      I wish it wasn't a point of contention, but if anyone merges it creates a fiasco of issues. We learned this with the Cats. SARU just recons that's the way it's going to be and screw all commonsense. Super 15 is already a bit crowded as it is, but it works.

      Dwerg - 2012-02-14 12:24

      I wish it wasn't a point of contention, but if anyone merges it creates a fiasco of issues. We learned this with the Cats. SARU just recons that's the way it's going to be and screw all commonsense. Super 15 is already a bit crowded as it is, but it works.

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 12:38

      Problem solved! Merge the Kings with the Pink Bulls and call them the QUEENS!!!

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 12:38

      Problem solved! Merge the Kings with the Pink Bulls and call them the QUEENS!!!

      Jack - 2012-02-14 12:42

      Make it a Super 12 - send the top 4 teams from the CC, NZ can send the top 4 from their ITM cup and the remaining four can be a domestic problem for Australia!!! There's too much rugby being played now anyhow and our CC is becoming a joke. Time for SA and NZ to make a stand for the future of the game!

      Jack - 2012-02-14 12:42

      Make it a Super 12 - send the top 4 teams from the CC, NZ can send the top 4 from their ITM cup and the remaining four can be a domestic problem for Australia!!! There's too much rugby being played now anyhow and our CC is becoming a joke. Time for SA and NZ to make a stand for the future of the game!

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 12:45

      OK Dozey, let's dispel the myth of "disgrace to world rugby" and all the other Bull you and your fellow Pink Moftus (leo)tards have been spreading, once and for all. You like living in the past so much, with the ancient history of 3 cups etc., so let's have a look what happened on the end-of-season logs since 1998, which was the first year both the Stormers and the Bulls played in the competition on a regular basis. Stormers average log position = 6.6, Bulls average log position = 7.1. I rest my case.

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 12:45

      OK Dozey, let's dispel the myth of "disgrace to world rugby" and all the other Bull you and your fellow Pink Moftus (leo)tards have been spreading, once and for all. You like living in the past so much, with the ancient history of 3 cups etc., so let's have a look what happened on the end-of-season logs since 1998, which was the first year both the Stormers and the Bulls played in the competition on a regular basis. Stormers average log position = 6.6, Bulls average log position = 7.1. I rest my case.

      Bulldozer - 2012-02-14 13:12

      I'd rather finish last every year, with a few cups in between, than finish 1st every year, with no cups. Ever. You have no case.

      Kosie - 2012-02-14 13:14

      @ dozer: just remove the pink cow's. btw don't you think some tutu's will look good with those pink jersey's of yours.

      johan.blertsie.cilliers - 2012-02-14 13:20

      How about this, each country selects one extra team, so the 3 teams play each other in a Tri-Nations like tournament (old format) same time as the Super 15, so as to get exposure and make use of stadiums like P.E. Then at the end of Super rugby the bottom team of the entire tournament is relegated and the winner of this Tri-series gets promoted. Next year the relegated team can qualify again if the win the tri-series.

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 13:35

      Dozey, you don't have to worry about finishing last every year. Only this year. Then you will either be relegated by, or merged with the Kings.

      Rye - 2012-02-14 13:49

      I like the idea of a play-off against the Kings to decide the last place team. But as most of the top players would choose to play for a Super rugby side, let us make it fair. No player that played Super Rugby that year are allowed to play in the play-offs.

      Gert - 2012-02-14 13:51

      Play off with the bottom team, the kings could not even win the B section, I think they were trashed 62 - 9 in the final last year by Boland

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 14:17

      Lionel is correct, there is only one option. The dilemma is that SARU made a commitment that the Kings will play in 2013. So there can be no promotion/relegation process, one of the current franchises simply has to go, unless SANZAR allows a 6th SA team, which they have already indicated is out of the question. Not a good situation - whichever SARU executive made the commitment without thinking of the consequences, should be fired, finish and klaar.

      Ruben - 2012-02-14 16:03

      en dalk is die swakste span die bulle haha !Dan gan daar vir jou n storie wees om oor te skryf!

      Hugh - 2012-02-15 13:52

      I think the kings should first be able to qualify for Currie Cup league first. What kind of arrogance makes them think they can just step into Super Rugby? Oh I forgot, The Watson factor. God help us.

  • Dhirshan - 2012-02-14 11:22

    just add teams from argentina and japan make it a super 20 lol, grow the game . . .

  • Jason - 2012-02-14 11:23

    Its not a simple as just dropping the bottom team out for the Kings to join. There would need to be some relegation games put in place. Not to mention major sponsorship problems!

      johan.blertsie.cilliers - 2012-02-14 13:21

      How about this, each country selects one extra team, so the 3 teams play each other in a Tri-Nations like tournament (old format) same time as the Super 15, so as to get exposure and make use of stadiums like P.E. Then at the end of Super rugby the bottom team of the entire tournament is relegated and the winner of this Tri-series gets promoted. Next year the relegated team can qualify again if the win the tri-series.

  • Ian - 2012-02-14 11:34

    What about the Kings not even being able to get to the currie cup premier division?? and now they wanna go to S15 guaranteed wooden spoon imo.

      Craig - 2012-02-14 12:09

      There is a difference between E P Kings and Super Kings. Furthermore, we should not lose sight of the fact that players from the team that drops out will be available to strengthen the Super Kings. That said I'm still not sure of the best solution.

      Craig - 2012-02-14 12:09

      There is a difference between E P Kings and Super Kings. Furthermore, we should not lose sight of the fact that players from the team that drops out will be available to strengthen the Super Kings. That said I'm still not sure of the best solution.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:46

      How can they get into the CC Premier division if promotion/relegation was scraped last year?? Once they knew that was the case their performances on the field changes big time.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:46

      How can they get into the CC Premier division if promotion/relegation was scraped last year?? Once they knew that was the case their performances on the field changes big time.

      Kosie - 2012-02-14 13:13

      I have to agree, play currie cup prem and the top 5 on the log will play S15 the following year.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 15:26

      How can you guys even suggest promotion/relegation?? This is about Super Rugby not Currie Cup? Are you still not aware of the difference? Super Rugby is a franchise system, not about a single province? Franchise is a team made up of a group of provinces EP/SWD/Border together will be a much bigger force than the EP Kings which you are all refering to..

  • Romeo - 2012-02-14 11:43

    Hahahaha!! I can understand why Aus and NZ must be thinking we are mad!!! The Kings to play S15/S16??? bwahahahahahaha!!!!!! You got to earn your right Kings! Win at least the Currie Cup and then we talk again!

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:44

      All the Super franchises we given their licenses, The Lions and Cheetahs have been there for many years and not proved much. Cheetahs are putting in some good performances but the Lions have been rather crap. Give their license to the Kings, if the Kings are totally useless then take it back in 5 years

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:44

      All the Super franchises we given their licenses, The Lions and Cheetahs have been there for many years and not proved much. Cheetahs are putting in some good performances but the Lions have been rather crap. Give their license to the Kings, if the Kings are totally useless then take it back in 5 years

      nelius.vantonder - 2012-02-14 14:11

      @Patrick...at least the Lions WON the CC last year the Kings could not even win the 1st Division...and was THRASHED by Boland! Are you kidding me? Even if the Lions don't do well in the S15 they have earned more right to be there than the lowly Kings who can't even win the 1st Division!

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 16:30

      Nelius this is not about the Currie Cup it's about Super Rugby... do you know the difference?

      Champ - 2012-02-15 14:08

      That s is exactly the point, Patrick. We are talking S15 not CC, and then the Kings want to play there????

  • Jimmy - 2012-02-14 11:44

    It's a total cock-up !!! Already too much rugby and just wait until the SA boys are flogged by their coaches, because no team is going to want to come last in their home conference !!! Not gonna help the Bokke much either... :(

  • Christie - 2012-02-14 11:48

    Good. By introducing these second and third stringers the series will be demerited. Do it on merit alternatively.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:41

      and the Lions deserve to be in Super Rugby? Kings will be a better side than the Cheetahs and Lions in a few years.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:41

      and the Lions deserve to be in Super Rugby? Kings will be a better side than the Cheetahs and Lions in a few years.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 14:54

      Nelius, to much brandy over lunch?

      Champ - 2012-02-15 14:11

      @ Patrick: better than the Lions and the Cheetahs in a few years, you say? Maybe. Maybe not. But fact is at present they are not a team that will be included on MERIT.

  • meyr.cruywagen - 2012-02-14 11:52

    I say 1 team max per province. Done.

      a.j.bosch - 2012-02-14 11:58

      There are 9 provinces

      a.j.bosch - 2012-02-14 11:58

      There are 9 provinces

      DSBennie - 2012-02-14 12:13

      The problem is that the unions are not fully in provincial borders: Blue Bulls are Northern Gauteng, but they are the only side that represents Limpopo. The kings should be broken up. SWD's should be eligible to play for the Stormers again and the Elephants and Bull Dogs should be split between VS and Natal

      DSBennie - 2012-02-14 12:13

      The problem is that the unions are not fully in provincial borders: Blue Bulls are Northern Gauteng, but they are the only side that represents Limpopo. The kings should be broken up. SWD's should be eligible to play for the Stormers again and the Elephants and Bull Dogs should be split between VS and Natal

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:41

      aj you chop, you know what meyr means

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:41

      aj you chop, you know what meyr means

  • Paul - 2012-02-14 11:58

    Go back to the Super 14 format, leave the Kings out of it until they prove that they can compete at super rugby level.

  • Doc - 2012-02-14 11:59

    This is not SARU's ideal, though they endorse it, it is Cheeky's idea and we all know how ego driven his ideas are. Non the less, screw Super 15 anyway. Would much rather watch Currie Cup contended with all the top local talent anyway, super rugby has and always will be controlled by the Antipodeans (started by Murdoch remember) because they do not have enough local competition to draw big crowds and as such they have for the most part at least set up structures favouring them, then when we complain we are whingers. F@1k them.

      Bluey - 2012-02-14 12:18

      @Doc Here's the solution, SARU should pull out and pay big time for breaking the contract esp regarding sponsorship deals not to mention broadcasting rights and when SARU does that NZ and OZ can form a new Super Comp within the Asia pacific region which would suit us and especially with Japan wanting a slice of the action regarding broadcasting/sponsorship deals. SARU could continue your CC and have an African rugby comp with the likes of Kenya, Namibia etc etc because Europe wont include you within the Heineken Cup etc because of the seasonal difference and logistical reasons.

      Bluey - 2012-02-14 12:18

      @Doc Here's the solution, SARU should pull out and pay big time for breaking the contract esp regarding sponsorship deals not to mention broadcasting rights and when SARU does that NZ and OZ can form a new Super Comp within the Asia pacific region which would suit us and especially with Japan wanting a slice of the action regarding broadcasting/sponsorship deals. SARU could continue your CC and have an African rugby comp with the likes of Kenya, Namibia etc etc because Europe wont include you within the Heineken Cup etc because of the seasonal difference and logistical reasons.

      Jeffrey - 2012-02-14 12:18

      I agree. The only reason they want to play with SA teams in the first place is so that some of the matches are in a time zone that allows the europeans to watch the games; they just don't have the local competition to draw the (televised) crowds, and therefore the money garnered from those crowds. But when we say we want to play in our own time zone we're whingers. F@1k them.

      Jeffrey - 2012-02-14 12:18

      I agree. The only reason they want to play with SA teams in the first place is so that some of the matches are in a time zone that allows the europeans to watch the games; they just don't have the local competition to draw the (televised) crowds, and therefore the money garnered from those crowds. But when we say we want to play in our own time zone we're whingers. F@1k them.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:40

      Cheeky's idea??? Cheeky has saved EC Rugby When the Kings start getting as much money as the rest of the Big boys then things will turn around BIG TIME I do agree, Super Rugby has gone to the dogs but it pays to be part of it

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:40

      Cheeky's idea??? Cheeky has saved EC Rugby When the Kings start getting as much money as the rest of the Big boys then things will turn around BIG TIME I do agree, Super Rugby has gone to the dogs but it pays to be part of it

      Doc - 2012-02-14 12:42

      @Bluey, in your haste to drip your sarcasm you missed my point completely. In the first place the current contract will come to an end at some point, we just dont renew it. Who gives a f@!k who the Antipodeans play after that. With nearly 600 000 registered rugby players South Africa is only behind England in terms of numbers, however with our long history of provincial rivalry and diversity we should not have time to play against any other country. The Currie Cup was the envy of club rugby nations for almost 100 years now it is taking a back seat to commercialism. If they want to play the best then they can come play here and test their mettle or pay our top teams big bucks to play against them in one off spectacles. As long as we have both formats one is going to suffer and right now it is the Currie Cup. Unfortunately I know I am daydreaming cause money makes the world go round. But would be nice none the less to tell them to F@!k off would you not agree.

      Doc - 2012-02-14 12:42

      @Bluey, in your haste to drip your sarcasm you missed my point completely. In the first place the current contract will come to an end at some point, we just dont renew it. Who gives a f@!k who the Antipodeans play after that. With nearly 600 000 registered rugby players South Africa is only behind England in terms of numbers, however with our long history of provincial rivalry and diversity we should not have time to play against any other country. The Currie Cup was the envy of club rugby nations for almost 100 years now it is taking a back seat to commercialism. If they want to play the best then they can come play here and test their mettle or pay our top teams big bucks to play against them in one off spectacles. As long as we have both formats one is going to suffer and right now it is the Currie Cup. Unfortunately I know I am daydreaming cause money makes the world go round. But would be nice none the less to tell them to F@!k off would you not agree.

      Bluey - 2012-02-14 12:57

      "If they want to play the best they can come here" If you say so....."the best" lol

      Doc - 2012-02-14 13:13

      Ah, see are a New Zealander Bluey, my mistake for thinking you had some brains.

      Bluey - 2012-02-14 14:02

      @PinkRaven The Arse-end of the world as you put it is within the Asia/Pacific region where the real money is regarding sponsorship and broadcasting rights, Japan and Hong Kong are very interested and I obviously know more about rugby than you considering Europe wanting to include SA. Because of the seasonal differences and logistics that the Heineken Cup teams would have to make to accommadate SARU is a no-brainer or should some Heineken Cup teams pull out of the comp to allow SA to enter their comp? Why should Europe change their format to accommodate SARU, it sounds arrogant similar to SARU "expecting" OZ and NZ to change the Super Rugby format to allow 16 teams to play. Besides, like NZ and Oz, Europe thinks SARU whine to much as well as being a pain in the butt

      Bluey - 2012-02-14 14:33

      @PinkRaven I did read it, out of the 24 Heineken Cup teams alreadyplaying, which teams do you think should pull out to allow SARU teams to compete in and out of those European 24 teams which teams do you think are willing to change their format and fly to SA or are SA teams willing to permanently be based in Europe since logistacally it would be virtually impossible for SARU teams to play 24 European teams whilst based in RSA? Don't forget the magic number 24.......24 European teams as it is, now think logistics, now think which European teams should leave the Heineken Cup just to accommodate SARU's whims and wishes.

      Bluey - 2012-02-14 14:37

      @PinkRaven Cut a long story short, I agree to disagree.......I've got work in the morning. Just as long as we both agree on one thing and that is that we both know who the real Blues team is.

  • johanspokie.rossouw - 2012-02-14 12:09

    the kings must 1st win the currie cup before they can join the super rugby, they are a disgrace to rugby

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-14 12:57

      I agree. The only S15 team they have managed to beat so far was the Bulls.

  • Peet - 2012-02-14 12:12

    Let them play a game against the bottom SA Super rugby team and if they beat them, they can play the next year, like in the currie cup!! They'll never get there if they have to play for it.

      Rye - 2012-02-14 13:55

      Yes Peet I agree, but no players that played for that bottom team in Super 15 must be allowed to play in the game. Fair is fair.

      Kosie - 2012-02-14 14:11

      ok rye: who should play then "Ghosts" or must they go and hire someone from other unions to play there

  • ross.paitaki - 2012-02-14 12:22

    i have to agree with the Aussies here as much as i dont want to. the only way to accomodate teh kings is that they have to play off against the weakest team each year and have a releagation system like football.

  • roboman1 - 2012-02-14 12:30

    Play 16 teams in 2 conferences, and the top 4 in each conference go through to a super 8. Play home and away in the super 8, and the top top play a final

      Kosie - 2012-02-14 14:14

      ok but that will have to wait till 2016, cause there were contracts signed and deal made up to 2016 to keep it in this current format.

  • Brian - 2012-02-14 12:32

    y do the reporter say problamatic southtern kings does he regard them as problems

      Kosie - 2012-02-14 14:16

      yes they are... which team do you think should lose out on S15 cause a 2nd tier team needs to be forced in S15 because of politics.

  • coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 12:37

    Go on the Kings!!!! How can you expect the Kings to be as good as one of the Super Teams without being paid the massive amounts the Super Teams are being paid. Lions - crap at Super Rugby and Super Bankrupt

      nelius.vantonder - 2012-02-14 14:17

      I can not WAIT to see the Kings getting smacked around the ball park and losing 100-0 in EVERY game next year!!! Then I beg you to come and comment here! lmfao!!!!

      Kosie - 2012-02-14 14:20

      so why don't saru put in some money, so the kings can build themselves a proper team and when they are ready, then win the 1st division then move up to premiership and if they can compete and not make constant fools of themselves, then they can play a relegation game.

      coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 14:43

      Nelius, that can only be a Lions supporters name... I will be here every week dont you worry. Everyone seems to think the Kings will get murdered...it shows how much you know what plans they have in place and the quality of rugby players the EC produce

      Sean - 2012-02-14 16:48

      So you'll win the First Division this year then!

  • Skhona Skratchy-l Luswazi - 2012-02-14 12:55

    This Aussies are so full of themselves

  • Charl - 2012-02-14 13:14

    who wants to whats boring cc(kick and kick and kick) rugby if you can watch good running rugby with tries

      Heiku - 2012-02-14 17:07

      Please stab yourself in the face with the nearest sharp object. Thanks.

  • Dustin - 2012-02-14 13:15

    Why play S15 at all? 1. Unlike the other two countries we already have competitive rugby competitions (Club Champs, Koshuis League, Varsity, Vodacom and Currie Cup) to develop & bleed new players. 2. From a travelling, broadcasting and financial point of view it would make more sense to slightly adjust our rugby season to the schedules of the European competitions.With the extra income (pounds/euros) the franchises would be able to contract exclusive squads that only compete in the European matches which in turn allows more youngsters the opportunity to play at the next level locally. It would also mean less local players leaving to play abroad and even if they do they can still be monitored and evaluated on a weekly basis when playing local sides. So the issue regarding the picking of foreign based players will be made obsolete. 3. It would also allow Saru to include the Kings without any disruption to the other five franchises. I suspect NZ & Aus know that if we decide to do this it would mean most of their players will eventually leave to join a more global competition with better financial rewards which in turn would mean the end of any competitive provincial rugby in these two countries. So what! We should be doing what is best for SA rugby, SA rugby players and SA rugby supporters, and not let these two "aan-die-gat-kant-van-die-wereld" countries dictate to us what we should be doing.

      Doc - 2012-02-14 13:47

      Spot on, also tired of being dictated to by our old foes.

      Sean - 2012-02-14 16:50

      The aussies and kiwis are very quick to call us whingers. They forget that SA gate takings bring a lot of money to the table - for all to share. Funny that they mention Japan when they threaten to replace us. They can't raise the finances from their own fans obviously! If SARU had the balls to pull out, and followed through on their threats, you'd hear a different tune from our SANZAR "mates"

  • Louis - 2012-02-14 13:19

    Here is a suggestion. The side at the bottom of the log needs to play against the Kings and the side that wins play in next years super 15.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-02-14 13:50

      I hope you talking of the bottom of a log including all countries? What if another country say they than also wants to have a chance because one of their 3rd rang teams, like Kings, also wants to participate? The Kings 1st have to proof them selves in the CC before they can be consider. All that will happen is that the extra players, of the team that is currently playing and now falls out, player's will be contracted by the Kings to strengthen them. How do you than bind a long contract with a player?

  • Deon - 2012-02-14 13:19

    SA Rugby has been waiting for years for the Cheetas to come last in the SuperXX so they can drop the Cheetas and put in the Kings. But guess what? The Cheetas are not playing their game!

      Denzil - 2012-02-14 13:49

      You probably didn't watch the game between the bulls and them, now did you?...You would think otherwise..!!!

  • johan.blertsie.cilliers - 2012-02-14 13:20

    How about this, each country selects one extra team, so the 3 teams play each other in a Tri-Nations like tournament (old format) same time as the Super 15, so as to get exposure and make use of stadiums like P.E. Then at the end of Super rugby the bottom team of the entire tournament is relegated and the winner of this Tri-series gets promoted. Next year the relegated team can qualify again if the win the tri-series.

  • hvanderlinde - 2012-02-14 13:28

    Promotion / Relegation matches?

      Denzil - 2012-02-14 13:51

      My thoughts exactly..!!!

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-02-14 13:53

      You must be on a certain level and can maintain it to be consider to be chosen for a relegation match. Not hoping that he can feed of those players of the excluded team, to have strong deepness to replace players with.

  • Justin - 2012-02-14 13:58

    The Super 15 needs a complete shake up. It should run the same as the UEFA Cup runs in European footy, where the top 4 teams from each country's domestic competition (In our case Currie Cup), make the grade to step up the following year. Then although the intensity would be a bit watered down, as domestic and Super competition games will be happening throughout the same period, the games would be more spread out throughout the season, culiminating in quarters, semis and finals in say May, June, July, with enough time to have the Domestic season finals in September. They could also include say two teams from Argentina and a Pacific Island Team making up 15. Also, all the franchises would need to operate the same, throughout all competitions, with the same coaching structures and contracted players, but with some flexibility on sponsorship. This will strengthen the domestic competitions (of which Oz barely has one!), and allow for easy promotion and relegation. Smaller teams with smaller fan bases may stuggle to get into the top flight, but they will survive, as the domestic competition will increase. No team should be given the right to play super rugby they need to earn it, just like Natal went from B division to win the currie cup. Super Kings, you are simply not super.

      Marius - 2012-02-14 20:23

      @Justin. You made a lot of sense until your last paragraph, because it is not true. Natal never won their pomotion into the A division of the Currie Cup, because they lost their promotion/relegation game against Northern Freestate at the time. SARFU, the controlling body, bailed out Natal by changing the competition structure and promoting them to the A division in the process. The higher exposure of playing in the A division enabled them to aquire major sponsors, something they could not get while still in the B division, because of the lack of exposure for the sponsors. These big sponsorships enabled Natal to contract top class players from all over the country and within a few years they were able to win the Currie Cup. What the Eastern Cape is asking is to receive the same treatment that Natal got at the time now that the proper management and infrastructure is in place and will be able to attract major sponsors and I am sure that within a few years the franchise will be a force in SA rugby.

      Champ - 2012-02-15 14:23

      @ Marius. In a few years you say? Great!! let them then wait a few years until they are a "force" and then be included on MERIT. Develop local talent and do something for the playing community instead of waiting for hand-outs.

  • springbokke - 2012-02-14 14:37

    My opinion.......the whole thing stinks of politics and money...[ gone are sporting ethics.]...enough said.

  • coolshoesouthafrica - 2012-02-14 15:17

    How can you guys even suggest promotion/relegation?? This is about Super Rugby not Currie Cup? Are you still not aware of the difference? Super Rugby is a franchise system, not about a single province? Franchise is a team made up of a group of provinces EP/SWD/Border together will be a much bigger force than the EP Kings which you are all refering to.. They to somehow need to be playing into the Currie Cup Premier divsion in the near future...which will happen once those 3 regions get better players through the Southern Kings Franchises money SOUTHERN KINGS ON THE RISE

      Marius - 2012-02-14 17:08

      Agree with you Patrick. What not a single one of the guys advocating a promotion /relegation match seem to comprehend, is that rugby today is all about who has the most money and therefore can buy the best team. To expect a franchise with a 5 million budget to play against a team who receives 40 million a year just from their share of the TV rights from Super rugby, on top of what they get from their own sponsors and then expect them to win, is bordering on the absurd. But give that team the same amount of money for a year and the TV exposure and you will have a completely different situation on your hands. Saying that, comparing the huge difference in budgets the Kings wasn't humiliated in any of the pre-season friendlies against the S15 franchises so far, although logic tells you they should have been. What you guys want can be compared to a Jack Russell having to to fight against a Rotweiler for a bigger bowl of food, but to make sure the Rotweiler doesn't lose, the Jack Russell should wear a muzzle over it's jaws too.

      Heiku - 2012-02-14 17:10

      Don't you have some jerseys to puke on?

      Heiku - 2012-02-14 17:12

      Forgot to add: Your opinions are wrong.

      Champ - 2012-02-15 14:25

      @ Marius: not humiliated? 88-0 not big enough?

  • larry.swartz - 2012-02-14 15:28

    to everyone making fun of the pink shirt that the Bulls will be wearing: it will be even worse losing to us (the Bulls) this year, wearing our pink shirts and all... so count your words now, because we might be wearing pink, but all of you will be the ones crying like little girls when we beat you at the end!!

      Sean - 2012-02-14 16:54

      :-) good post I'm worried what happens when you play the Lions, the colours may clash! :-) No matter the colour the Bulls are always a tough side!

  • Juan-Carlos - 2012-02-14 17:54

    What the SARFU writing cheques it can't pay ?......... what are Safas up to 6 will not go into 5

  • cedricrcannon - 2012-02-14 18:29

    Pleas guys, this Bulls, Stormers banter is bloody chidish and boring, lets get serious, the Lions and Cheetahs have become competetive winning games overseas, I don't believe there is one genuine SA Rugby supporter even from the Eastern Cape. Who wants to see a SA team losing by 50plus points again. I say the Kings must be guaranteed a spot in the S15 ( although they don't deserve it based on track record ) only if they win a home and away promotion-relegation playoffs with the bottom SA team, anyother way is just not acceptable, the five frachises will have the support of the fans to boycott the tournement,, because FANS fill the stadiums, not SENTIMENT!!!!!!!

  • Marius - 2012-02-14 20:25

    This whole Kings saga has been around since 2005 when the decision to include an EC franchise in Super Rugby was taken by all the unions for the first time. This was ratified in a Cape Town High court case in 2007 after SARU failed to deliver on their decision and the Kings took them to court. They were given 2 years by the court to implement the ruling and incorporate the Kings into Super Rugby. That is why they went all-out in their bid against the Rebels to get the Kings into that extra spot last year. Now they are facing serious contempt of court litigation if they don’t implement the court ruling in 2013. They will also have to pay the Kings millions in lost revenue as part of the ruling. If you only add up their share of the Super Rugby TV rights that they have lost out on since 2007 you already get to a figure in excess of 200 million.

  • Jaco - 2012-02-15 07:14

    Eks bly om te sien SANZAR sien SA rugby vir wat dit is, n moerse politieke sirkus. En eks bly dat hulle ook nie stilbly vir ons politiek nie, iemand moet dit tog vir die res vd wereld wys. Hiers die storie, Kings speel twee games teen die onderste team in die SA log, Home en Away, Points diffrnce bepaal wie gaan deur, Kings het nie n kans nie.

  • SirFGrumpy - 2012-02-15 08:35

    This is just another disaster, why do we always get ourselves into this kind of mess. The Kings are not Super 15 material, finished and klaar. 88 nil klap by the Lions? First off, the Kings should be prompted to the Currie Premier league as the 9th side. If they can compete and finish in the top 4, which I doubt they will, then they can have a shot at a home and away promotion relegation match against the aggregate worst South African Super 15 side of the last 5 years. If they can win those matches, well then they have the naming rights for the 5th team but must play 50% of their home matches at the losing Super 15 teams home ground. But this is an unholy mess! Holy cow we stirring up another hornets nest for nothing.

  • Munro - 2012-02-15 09:44

    88-0 lost to the lions.what a joke !! pls dont embarrass South Africa and the rugby loving public with this bold and stupid move . it will Fail !!!

  • Adam - 2012-02-15 10:09

    The lions just put 88 points past these kings. And i can assure you while we were trialling they were trying to prove a point. Im a lions fan but could you imagine the financial impact if say a bulls or sharks side finished bottom like what happened in 2002-2003. The kings dont have the support or money to play with the big boys. Sad but true.

  • Dries - 2012-02-15 12:32

    I think the kings must reconsider after last night 88-0 lost against the Lions

  • MJ - 2012-02-16 07:55

    The Kings must first be able to qualify for the currie cup on merrit before they can take on a the wooden spoon SA team. Will never happen!

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