News24

Lions confirm mass departures

2012-10-03 12:07

Johannesburg - Three Golden Lions players have confirmed their moves to other South African franchises for next year's Super Rugby season.

Lock Franco van der Merwe was going out on loan to the Sharks for the 2013 competition, the Lions announced on Wednesday, while prop Pat Cilliers and flanker Michael Rhodes had penned permanent deals with the Stormers.

Acting Lions CEO Ruben Moggee said the destinations of newly anointed Springboks Elton Jantjies and Jaco Taute was still under discussion.

"The rest is speculation and nothing is finalised," Moggee said.

He added that it was important for loan agreements to be water tight contractually and that players on loan needed to play meaningful roles at their new teams to ensure they came back with Super Rugby experience.

"It doesn't help to plan January to June," he said.

"The end game of 2014 and 2015 is front of mind... we try and be practical and sit with the players."

The Lions have lost their place to the Southern Kings in next year's Super Rugby competition, but Moggee said the Johannesburg franchise would not be averse to selling players to the Eastern Cape outfit.

"The rugby ball isn't round, so you never know what will happen," he said.

Any players on loan at other franchises would return to the Lions for the promotion-relegation match next year, irrespective of where their new teams were based.

The number of players to be loaned out had not been specified, as it depended on how much depth was available for each position.

"We've not put an embargo to loan out five players (as an example), and that is where it is," Moggee said.

"It is a fine balance... we need to work on a principle that players want to play here."

The Johannesburg-based franchise were looking to set up matches against opponents better than Vodacom Cup standard, according to Moggee, while the Super Rugby season was underway.

Meanwhile, the Lions said Derek Minnie and Willie Britz had signed new contracts which would keep them with the team till 2014.

SAPA

Comments
  • deon.fouche.3 - 2012-10-03 12:13

    To think this would never have happen if poorless kings were not promised a place while other unions had to play to get there. What a joke SARU!

      sarah.bouttell - 2012-10-03 12:21

      Agreed. The players don't really have a choice, they have to move if they want to continue to play. And the Lions got royally shafted.

      jaco.groenewald.731 - 2012-10-03 12:22

      Why the hell did SARU not go for a relegation match? They knew old kotsie and his kings would NEVER beat the Lions!!! Feel real sorry for the players, they are the victims of poor management and politics, shame on you SARU!!!

      deon.fouche.3 - 2012-10-03 12:26

      @ Jaco, I think ou Kotsie was not in for a relegation match! They will end up losers and not being able to play S15

      ruan.smith.14 - 2012-10-03 12:33

      Lets be honest now boys!! SARU did make a blunder in its processes, but without the forced hand approach there just isnt enough cash in the Eastern Cape area to build a team and maintain it, and it would not have changed had they not done the switch move. Thats the reality! So moaning wont help, and being negative shows your own character.

      jaco.groenewald.731 - 2012-10-03 12:39

      @Ruan- Yes moaning won’t help, but my word its called freedom of speech!!!! SARU screwed the Lions, Point!!!

      squeegee.pilot - 2012-10-03 12:40

      For the first time in my life I will be supporting the opposition side to an SA side in every match they play. I will enjoy their embarrassment. SARU has destroyed a piece of history. Shame on you.

      ruan.smith.14 - 2012-10-03 12:46

      Squegee, youre a chop, why stop there? why dont you immigrate as well?

      luke.sportify - 2012-10-03 12:48

      play their way to get there?? did I miss something??

      deon.fouche.3 - 2012-10-03 12:54

      @luke.. I am not even going to start explain. Your name reminds me of some kots gesig!

      dieter.muller.942145 - 2012-10-03 13:01

      squeegee.pilot well 99% of the country supported the opposition when the Lions played ... oh ya .... EP KINGS ON THE RISE ...... oh its trueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

      Vanman1979 - 2012-10-03 13:03

      @Ruan - Move to the EC. I support only one team in Super Rugby. The other SA teams get my support should a win by them put my team in a better position on the log. Now what is wrong with that? If I feel im not going to support the Kings who are you to tell me i should immigrate? The Kings with Watson and Son at the helm will not get my support. And I can promise you I have been behind EP for many years. My Uncle played for them after all.

      frigo.donnerweer - 2012-10-03 13:07

      Would love to see Jantjies play at WP!!!

      squeegee.pilot - 2012-10-03 13:19

      @DJVANMAN, Spot on! I support more than one SA team when we play against overseas opposition. Don't see why I must emigrate because Ruan says so.I will continue supporting other SA teams but certainly not the EP Dwings.

      spartikus2805 - 2012-10-03 13:50

      How did other unions play to get there?

      carl.miles.31 - 2012-10-03 14:03

      Lets be serious about this, the lions have been a shambles since they split from the Cats, the Kings cant do worse!!! EP rugby on the rise.....

      jacobus.vandermerwe.9 - 2012-10-03 15:58

      http://www.facebook.com/EPKingsBoycott?fref=ts

      franz.prade.9 - 2012-10-04 08:58

      So that's it. Lions destined to never play top rugby again. I agree 100% with Kevin de Klerk that provinces WP,Sharks and (my now past 2nd choice team Cheetas) turned on us by voting for the EP Kings. I am now considering becoming Blue Bull supporter or will watch 2nd division rugby. What a shame after 60 years of loyal Transvaal (Lions) support Cricket decisions in this country just as bad ?

  • david.w.bakker - 2012-10-03 12:20

    SARU are to blame for this mess. What are they doing to save face. Nothing!!!! Some people have compared what happened to the Stormers some years ago when they were out of the Super competion. Lot of things are different, no political decision to oust the Strormes, Stormers did not have a mass exodus of players. SARU lied about the changes saying that no team will be replaced for the Kings.

  • neutedop.opinie - 2012-10-03 12:31

    I think SARU had do get all of this to a point. Personally I hate seeing the Lions go, but glad that they managed to give the kings only 1 year....after that we will never see them again. SARU had to let it come to a point, with the promise being made years ago, relegation match was not an option. They promised the Kings playtime. This was all to shut up the ANC, and now the Kings buy white players from other provinces.....I tought the whole idea was that this would lift rugby in the townships of the Eastern Cape?

      spartikus2805 - 2012-10-03 13:56

      Be reasonable about it. Did you really think the entire side would be made up black players from the region? It's there so up and coming players are not bought by other unions now, but will be happy to stay in the eastern cape. and remember, every team in the world that is professional buys players. so stop all the hating on the kings, give them a chance to develop.

  • johan.jacobs.5680 - 2012-10-03 12:33

    Rats always jump a sinking ship.

      Fjvanblerk - 2012-10-03 12:39

      ....and I suppose you would stick with one even if it meant not being able to feed your family or yourself?!

      stirrer.stirrer - 2012-10-03 13:08

      Not true! There are still many Bulls supporters left.

      nico.pretorius.946 - 2012-10-03 13:34

      read the article again, they are not jumping ship, they are on loan, they are coming back, only loosing two players, the rest signed to stay on! at least the LIONS have a ship that they are busy getting into order, the queens got a raft put together by promises and puke!

  • dieter.muller.942145 - 2012-10-03 12:46

    EP KINGS ON THE RISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Vanman1979 - 2012-10-03 13:09

      Only the EP Kings? I thought the Southern Kings were three teams: Border Bulldogs, EP Kings ansd SWD Eagles?

      squeegee.pilot - 2012-10-03 14:05

      The Southern Cringe are going down dieter... Only politics will give them a second year.

      gerrit.volschenk - 2012-10-03 14:32

      They won't even rise from the Currie Cup B section this year,irrespective of what side they meet in the relegation games. Then who will Watson and his backers blame,the Lions again ??

      henri.langeveldt - 2012-10-04 12:40

      On the rise for a year and then a massive fall! .....Rise from what and where? You were nothing without the help from SARU and will be nothing without them in the future. The whole province is a financial mess.

  • neville.watson.94 - 2012-10-03 12:49

    I don"t like this but the lions had their fare time to proof themself, I think the kings is going to be the laughing stock of the competition

  • luke.sportify - 2012-10-03 12:51

    Why are all Lions supporters angry with the Southern Kings? What did they do? SARU and the government made a deal as they wanted top rugby back in the EC where it belongs. You should be angry with SARU not at the team who has replaced u

      deon.fouche.3 - 2012-10-03 13:01

      Watter deel van Cheeky Watson.. I demand.. verstaan jy nie? Wat is gesê, wat wou hy doen? Spelers bevorder van die streek ens en nou, nou gaan soek hulle spelers oorsee! Hy lieg meer as enige iets anders man en terloops, hoekom was daar nie uitspeel wedstryde nie? Dan sou ons almal mos kan sien wie is die beter spanne tussen die twee, maar nee, dit is ook "gekook" sodat ou kotsie tog net sy sin kan kry.

      Vanman1979 - 2012-10-03 13:11

      Luke, The fact that Cheeky and his boys drove this and didn't want to wait is why they are angry. The Kings could have used the next three years to build and get a team together. Already they are crying because they can't find players. Yes SARU and goverment made the promises, but the Kings forced their hand.

      jaco.groenewald.731 - 2012-10-03 13:20

      Do you even follow rugby?????

      spartikus2805 - 2012-10-03 14:01

      @DJ you cant buy players if you are not guaranteed super rugby status. which top players want to play for a team for the next three years if they arent going to be playing super rugga?

      gerrit.volschenk - 2012-10-03 14:34

      Why don't we start with politics does not belong in sports. Then the well known Watson family that preferred to vomit on the Bok jersey instead of wearing it. Then we can follow it up with the Lions beating the Queens 80 - 0 earlier in the year. And and....

  • christo.piek.5 - 2012-10-03 13:02

    How can Ruben Moggee say "the Johannesburg franchise will not be averse to selling players to the Eastern Cape franchise"! Complete nonsense! The main aim should be to retain our players - at all cost! And definitely not to sell them to the Kings! It is time that Moggee explains to the Lions supporters what action the Lions management is taking to keep our boys!

  • terrence.schwartz.1 - 2012-10-03 13:08

    What has happened to Oregan Hoskins?? The silence is deafening!!

  • andries.greeff.1 - 2012-10-03 13:10

    Watson and his political muppets will feel how little an All Black cares about struggle credentials on a rugby pitch! The real world awaits!

      walliedip - 2012-10-04 05:15

      @Andries...True that. if only the "watson's" could play the boks for a "confirmed" go-ahead to the next S15

  • nico.pretorius.946 - 2012-10-03 13:31

    So we only loosing two players, both have not played much this year, but awesome talents like Derek and Willie still sign and stay with the Lions. These guys know that something special is in the making and want to be part of it. Next year we will destroy the queens in the promotion/relegation game, they will be low on confidence after loosing all their matches with 50+ points, and the Lions will be hungry to take their revenge. GO LIONS!!!

  • fafpetzer - 2012-10-03 13:37

    Chicky Watson is behind all of this buggerup - rather politics than sport, now the whole rugby world has loan players etc whilst the players just could have stayed the Lions in the first place, whats the use of having a split Lion team playing for different teams whilst the kings have no players? Stupid Watsons....

  • mbuso.ngcobo.714 - 2012-10-03 13:53

    Wonder what merit are people speaking about. Just check the super rugby stats of the Lions over the last 5 years. The truth is the lions have been given enough time to prove themselves at super level and year in year out they fail. I dont care who has replaced them, they just needed reminder that being in super rugby is not a some supreme right. All the best to the Kings, I think they will fight it out with the cheeters for last spot in the South African conference.

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-10-03 16:44

      Come back with this argument in 10 months time. By then you will know that you can do worse than come last! The Cheetahs will smash the Kings next year. Unlike the Lions who won two derbies in 2012, the Kings are a walking bonus point to all the SA sides next year...

      wanderering.wanderer - 2012-10-04 06:36

      And the EP had 120 years to win the Currie cup and not one win to their name, now rumour has it that Super rugby is at a higher level than the Currie cup. Now would the most logical step not be to first at least be competitive in the Currie cup proper and then play Super rugby? The Kings surely do have a right to play top rugby, but do not use the excuse of demanding their place at expence of the LIONS that the LIONS have not performed. The reasoning of growing the game is rightous at best but agree with me that if proper sporting facilities are built in the areas and proper coaching structures are put in place (without corruption and medling) then and then only will the game grow. I think that killing the game in one area for the benifit of another does not make for good administration.

  • Theuns Jacobs - 2012-10-03 13:55

    so puke watson hasnt played a game, yet he is captain of the SK. thanks DAD..!!! dad must help him to get a springbok blazer, dad must help with getting the captaincy, why does your dad not play for you dum*ass..!!

      lean.sadie - 2012-10-03 14:34

      I Don't like em either, but Watson hasn't played a game? What are you referring too?

      spartikus2805 - 2012-10-03 14:57

      what are on about? he's been playing for EP!

  • hcswart - 2012-10-03 13:56

    It just comes down to the fact that the Lions have been last on log for three years running. Correction 2012 last, 2011 second last, 2010 not a single game won. Sadly SA rugby isn't big enough to effectively support the promotion/relegation structure as there simple isn't enough money to grow and retain players. If SARU had not taken action the Lions could have carried on coasting at the bottom log for years to come. In the end this is good for SA Rugby, the Eastern Cape will now be a new pool of talent and our top end teams are getting some new reinforcements. I just don't think one year is quite enough breathing room for the Kings to the successful but we'll see how it turns out.

      nico.pretorius.946 - 2012-10-03 14:27

      If it was griquas instead of the queens I would have supported you, the griquas have been competitive for years and actually would deserve a shot at super rugby. the queens have done nothing except bitch, moan and promise while not even able to win a promotion game into the CC premier division. That is why there is such a big backlash, not the fact that the Lions are our, but the fact that a team that does not deserve promotion got it due to politics.

      lean.sadie - 2012-10-03 14:35

      We all know what your saying, but what about the up and coming lions talent? They just go to waste now? Stupid is an understatement for what they have done.

      nico.pretorius.946 - 2012-10-03 14:50

      @lean, it is only for a year, then the Lions will be back in super rugby, we keeping most of our talent, and even got players moving to the Lions. This is a good wake-up call for the Lions, from now on they will make sure not to be in this position again :)

      lean.sadie - 2012-10-03 15:33

      Maybe Nico, but you arent getting everybody back. At least 2 signed permanent deals with Stormers, Maku with Kings, and Elton contract expires next year, so he could move somewhere else too. Then quite a few others leaving too. Sure you won't lose them all, but at least 5 or more. That is a big chunk, not to mention all the rest that might leave too. Biggest thing is, there are lots of them who won't get any exposure at all. Sure the Kings might get some, but the way they are buying overseas players does not help SA rugby at all, they signed a Argentina 9 too. Would love to see all 6 our teams in, but won't happen until later. I ALso think they need to change the format, the amount of games they are playing is way way too many, and will only hurt the players. Sure I love watching so many games, but it is clear it is bad for the players. Should go back to the old way, 1 game vs every team, top 4 or 6 playoffs, or something like that. If this continues most will retire at 30 or earlier, or be injured for a long time, like we have been seeing a lot of lately. Anyways, What is best for SA rugby is what should be the first thing on the agenda, nothing else should matter. Just my 2 cents. What is done is done, but the future needs to be looked at, and prepared for.

      nico.pretorius.946 - 2012-10-03 16:58

      Hi lean, my suggestion would be to change the whole format. A number of years ago the CC was between al 14 unions, and some of the smaller unions were just getting competitive when they scrapped it. I would prefer going back to that format, a CC in the beginning of the year between all 14 unions, then make it difficult for the big unions to buy players, put a BIG transfer fee (10 times the guy's salary) in for any buys. That would ensure the big unions can't just buy players and will eventually lead to a more equal spread of talent. In this scenario, top 3 teams in the CC qualify for a super 9 in the second part of the year. Less international travel and games, and a real prize for the teams in the CC to play for. My 2 cents in any case :)

  • gerrit.volschenk - 2012-10-03 14:28

    No problem for me with the players being loaned and still competing at that level. Kings will fall in the relegation match come 2013,no doubt. Why does the whore mongers of the media rejoice over the difficult period the Lions are in now. When they lift the Currie Cup and knock the Kings back to the C - league where they belong i hope the Lions lock these pathetic journalists out of Ellispark.

      walliedip - 2012-10-04 05:24

      @gerrit...I'm with you on that. as an AB fan myself I follow the AB's opponnents by the letter let alone statiscs by name. It's good to know the opponent but to know yours truely (kings) came in as a "BEE" sort of, i do sidder to think what your actual Bok team's selection gonna look like. All the best for that boet...Oh I do feel for the lions tho being ar%$# kicked like that

  • ltjvrensburg - 2012-10-03 14:36

    My final comments on the Kings/Lions saga is this: 1) The way the situation was handled is wrong. 2) This was SARU's choice and the Kings are not to blame. 3) Development in the Eastern Cape towards rugby is needed and progress can be made, they have great rugby schools, in my view better than Gauteng's "rugby" schools (see rankings for yourself over last few years) excl Pretoria. Schools such as Dale, Selbourne, Queens, St Andrews, Grey PE, Framesby, Marlow, Brandwag, Daniel Pienaar, Outeniqua(George WC but close enough). If these boys get the opportunity to stay down here and be involved in top flight rugby it will definitely be beneficial to SA rugby as a whole. 4) I know the Lions supporters feel hard done by, if I was a Lions supporter I would be disappointed myself but don't take that disappointment out on Kings supporters or the team for that fact. They would always support the Lions playing overseas teams. 5) Give the Kings a break, it might just be beneficial to SA rugby and the Lions most probably will be back in 2014 or by that stage we might have 6 teams.

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-10-03 16:49

      The Kings can't realistically compete in 2013. The likely scenario is they will end bottom of the table and play the Lions for promotion / relegation. Whoever wins that game is on the same hiding to nothing in 2014. By the time 2015, and Super 16 comes around the Aussies and Kiwis will be pee'd with the number of SA side making the play-offs, compliments of the double bonus points received from the "bad" SA side. They will opt instead for an Argentinian, or Japanese, or American side to have that 16th spot. And SARU will do exactly what they have done for the last decade. Accept the decision and then whine about it later!!!

      wanderering.wanderer - 2012-10-04 06:41

      And the EP had 120 years to win the Currie cup and not one win to their name, now rumour has it that Super rugby is at a higher level than the Currie cup. Now would the most logical step not be to first at least be competitive in the Currie cup proper and then play Super rugby? The Kings surely do have a right to play top rugby, but do not use the excuse of demanding their place at expence of the LIONS that the LIONS have not performed. The reasoning of growing the game is rightous at best but agree with me that if proper sporting facilities are built in the areas and proper coaching structures are put in place (without corruption and medling) then and then only will the game grow. I think that killing the game in one area for the benifit of another does not make for good administration.

  • graeme.sauls - 2012-10-03 15:12

    EP Kings press conference at 2pm to announce new signings Bandisa Maku from Lions, Nicolas Vergallo from Argentina and Hadleigh Parkes from Auckland Blues. Can you Lions cry babies put a sock in it..it is really pathetic to day after day see you guys console yourselves with this crap that you are victims and Cheeky this and Cheeky that. We are building a team in the Eastern Cape, a team that will suprise all and at the moment the SA teams in S15 are not looking forward to playing down here. SARFU created this mess so stop blaming EP. And those South African folk who want to support other sides when they play the Kings, thats just a joke. I am sure you are the same people who cant stand the sight of fans in Cape Town and PE supporting the All Blacks. At least those fans do it out of a historical, cultural background based on our country's past. What is your excuse?

      sean.brady.14224 - 2012-10-03 16:54

      We Lions are cry babies because we consider ourselves victims? And the Kings were awarded a position in Super Rugby on merit obviously! The main point to awarding the Kings Super Rugby promotion was to develop rugby in the Eastern Cape. It was not for Cheeky to run around and sign players from all over the world! As for this team you are building, every SA side is looking very forward to playing in PE, it's a guaranteed five pointer!!!

      jjskosana - 2012-10-03 22:59

      Go kings

      walliedip - 2012-10-04 05:26

      @sean..hope the kings create another great scrumhalf like Divan...all the best my man:-)

      wanderering.wanderer - 2012-10-04 06:42

      And the EP had 120 years to win the Currie cup and not one win to their name, now rumour has it that Super rugby is at a higher level than the Currie cup. Now would the most logical step not be to first at least be competitive in the Currie cup proper and then play Super rugby? The Kings surely do have a right to play top rugby, but do not use the excuse of demanding their place at expence of the LIONS that the LIONS have not performed. The reasoning of growing the game is rightous at best but agree with me that if proper sporting facilities are built in the areas and proper coaching structures are put in place (without corruption and medling) then and then only will the game grow. I think that killing the game in one area for the benifit of another does not make for good administration.

  • gerrit.dekock - 2012-10-03 17:46

    Die Kings het net soveel tyd soos die Lions gehad om hulself te bewys ...hulle het nie . Almal wat Saru se besluit goedpraat is n klomp idiote,hoop STORMERS kom volg jaar laaste en moet speel vir promosie relegasie wedstryd teen die LEEUS dat ons hulle vir ewig sit waar hulle hoort,n klomp politieke pionne

      riaan.crouse1 - 2012-10-03 20:15

      suurgat !!!!!!!!!!

  • Eddie.Minora - 2012-10-03 18:15

    Nee vir Jantjies, ons moet ophou spelers koop of leen, ons het meer as genoeg talent, dankie! WP groete

  • brionyl.french - 2012-10-04 11:30

    This is actually bad! And so wrong but what does anyone expect, Crime rules here!! kick backs and corruption, if you cant beat them it seems join them....Our prisons are full so what they gonna do lock you up in your home? Please...

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