Time for Boks to go for broke

2010-11-22 07:34

Gavin Rich - SuperSport

With the Grand Slam dream left behind in the dark Murrayfield mud into which they were unceremoniously trampled by buoyant Scotland, the Springboks will start the final week of the Test match part of this tour needing to make a couple of massive decisions.

There are in fact several huge decisions to be made across several levels of South African rugby in the coming weeks, but the one that should concern Bok coach Peter de Villiers right now is what game he wants his team to play against England at Twickenham on Saturday.

Many would say he has used up his last chance already, for many a Bok coach has been sacked for far less than what De Villiers has been allowed to get away with. But there is a chance of some form of redemption if the Boks beat England.

It certainly won’t balance the books for the year – arguably not even the Grand Slam would have done that given the alarming way the Boks have slipped in 2010 – but if the Boks can win on Saturday showing some kind of innovation to their game, then De Villiers will at least have some small bargaining tool.

To do that though De Villiers is going to have to go for broke and be prepared to bank on the path blazed by John Plumtree and the Sharks coaching staff. Already, even before the Scotland defeat, he was hinting that he might be prepared to start with Patrick Lambie for the first time in the final test of the tour.

It was always going to be a big call, but it becomes even bigger now given the desperate need for the Boks to save some face after the calamitous 21-17 defeat to Scotland, a result which surely now leaves De Villiers just one loss away from certain dismissal.

Lambie’s omission from the team to play Scotland was criticized last week but when match day dawned bleak and drizzly in Edinburgh, many South Africans would have been pleased the selection had not been made.

Fine player that he is, it is doubtful that Lambie is at this stage of his career the best option as a wet weather player, and bringing him on with 20 minutes to go of a match that was being decided by place-kicks was just the latest in a long line of highly questionable substitutions made in the De Villiers era.

But, provided it is a dry day, if the Boks are to show any signs of growth in their game on this tour, they are going to have to show some innovation in the strategy they adopt against England. Will De Villiers be prepared to do that, particularly given that leaving out Steyn from the start would be a high risk selection as it would rob the team of their most reliable goalkicker?

The problem for De Villiers is that if Lambie is going to work out, he needs like-minded players around him. His best rugby in 2010 was played with Charl McLeod as his halfback partner, and if the Boks are to make the necessary tempo adjustment to their game, they are also going to require the pace of Keegan Daniel.

One of the stars of the Currie Cup, Daniel has been ignored thus far on this trip with the exception of a brief cameo towards the end of the Ireland game. But Deon Stegmann hasn’t really worked out as the fetcher, and Daniel was the form player in the team that sign-posted the route the Boks should take if they want to be progressive.

Yet it may well be the one area that is unlikely to see change, and perhaps shouldn’t see any change, is the one that will decide if De Villiers' team has any chance of scoring what would be a seventh consecutive win over England in a sequence that dates back to 2006.

It was the tight forwards who paved the way for the win over Ireland in the opening match, but it was the Scottish ability to front them in all aspects of the forward battle that laid the foundation for the upset win. With the Boks not having grown their game at all since the last World Cup, that is usually all it takes for an opposing team to become almost certain of victory.

And that is the problem – the Boks have little plan other than physical domination. If the physical dominance doesn’t happen, they are lost. That is why, regardless of the result of the Twickenham match, some hard decisions need to be made by the Saru administrators during the summer and in the little time that remains before the next season rolls into view and the 2011 World Cup year starts.

Eight defeats since the end of last year’s Tri-Nations is just too many, and there have been too many massive mistakes made along the way, for the Boks to return home at the end of this tour pretending that it’s business as usual.


  • mysticBoer - 2010-11-22 08:10

    We can hope all we want, but he will not be fired. SA Rugby is rotten from the top down at the moment, starting with Hoskins who continues to turn a blind eye to a SERIOUS problem in the Springbok camp right down to the coach and his assistants who don't seem to be doing ANY coaching at the moment. As it stands, Scotland is ranked 8th in the world. For a World Champion team to lose to them is like ... hmm, sorry can't find a suitable comparison! I've lost all hope. We'll have to (once again) start building after the next world cup. It's arguably too late to do a rescue job on the current situation. We won't make it past the quarters next year.

      Peter - 2010-11-22 09:29

      "For a World Champion team" Technically speaking only!!!!!!

      mysticBoer - 2010-11-22 10:06

      agreed! They suck

      bbbruce - 2010-11-22 17:20

      Well said mysticBoer. even if the Boks do lose he won't be fired. The only person on that coaching team who has made blind bit of difference is Os. Since he came on board the scrum has at least been stable. Neither the weather, referee or player changes can alter the fact that this team is coached and managed by the most inept and incompetent rugby philistines that SA has ever seen. Between them they have reduced some very good and very promising players to the dumbest players the game has ever seen. I am going to the England game only because I bought my tickets 6 months ago and even if we do manage to win I will not be jumping up and down in happiness because we do not deserve it at all. It's time for the administrators to grow a pair and act because I can promise this, they will soon have stadiums like Wales and Scotland half full and dwindling.

  • skywalker - 2010-11-22 08:14

    Yep...the Boks are broke and the only quickfix is a new professional coaching staff with a gameplan.

  • Danie - 2010-11-22 08:15

    Fire PDV. He still wants to play blue bull type of 10 man rugby and it does'nt work under the new rules. Retain posession is the modern game. Please leave out the sharks players. You are wasting there talent. A player that has been coached by PDV returns to his province a confused and unfit player.

      Geoff - 2010-11-22 08:39

      blue bull type rugby? for the last 3 years the Bulls have been the one team that has been most effective in using both the strong forwards to set up a platform and then striking out wide with fast running backs. as a matter of fact the 10 man rugby played this year was by the stormers, hence their choice of flyhalf in Willem de Waal. Please note that the new rules were in place last year as well as this year and the Bulls won the super 14 both times. Clearly their brand of rugby is the right one. To execute it though you have to have good coaches and the right players and this is where the boks have failed.

      Pierewiet - 2010-11-22 08:45

      Where is the S14 Trophy currently??? If PdV could play BB rugby, we would be champions again.

      Michael - 2010-11-22 08:56

      @Pierewiet - Where is the Currie Cup? Things have moved on very quickly

      Emile - 2010-11-22 09:55

      @ Danie. You sound just as stupid as most WeePee supporters. Do yourself a favour and go and look at which team scored the most tries in the Super 14 - of all 14 sides. So sick and tired of this provincialistic stupidity in South Africa.

      Sleepless - 2010-11-22 10:03

      @Michael - Dude really, the Sharks were good this year yes, but don't come with one win in I don't know how many years and talk to us BB supporters who have watched them take the CC trophy many, many times including this decade. You're just excited because your team won for a change. We are used to winning, nothing new, and nothing to be smug about.

      Jay - 2010-11-22 10:05

      Johnny you are an uneducated idiot, do you even watch the games. If you have nothing constructive to say about SPRINGBOK Rugby, you know? the team that represents the WHOLE country.......then do me a favour and shut it!!!!!!!

      Dewet - 2010-11-22 10:45

      Yeah, I hate the blue bulls, but they play awesome rugby due to good coaching staff and players. I would rather have them run out than the current springbok squad.

      BardofAvon - 2010-11-22 10:47

      @Geoff: Spot on.

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 11:34

      And how many cups has Province win in the last 10 years..??? ...since 2001.. many..??? ........and the Bulls..???? .....just asking... .....hehehe..!!!

      Neille - 2010-11-22 14:00

      @ all below : WTF ? we are all upset about the lack of direction of the SPRINGBOKS and you lot start a provincial arguement !! Get over it ! THIS GUY ( pdv) is killing OUR team !!! someone must stop him !!!

  • pcpcoetzee89 - 2010-11-22 08:27

    I normally have much to say yet ... after 13 tests of pathetic BOK struggle and degeneration i have no more words ... as it has simply become a JOKE ... one big, fat, tragic JOKE!!

      waynet59 - 2010-11-22 09:22

      Next year will be worse when absa (pick a team based on colour,not talent)takes over!

  • bill - 2010-11-22 08:28

    The senior players should have fronted up to the prevailing conditions.The modern game is about ball retention, not kicking it away. Our centres are pitiful and Jean de villiers is a cart-horse.He misses tackles, refuses to pass and is painfully slow.The forwards are not cleaning out at the rucks and we will pay dearly for this against NZ. It is not as if the misfit De Villiers can call on his assistants.Muir in particular is a proven failure.

      tomharnett9 - 2010-11-22 09:35

      I totally agree with you. Without posession you are not in the game. Even when we do run with ball it is always as isolated in individuals. We never seem to look for anyone to offload to. Each guy runs and dies wth the ball. When did we last see Jean De villiers make a constructive pass and send a team mate away with the ball. The backs all play as lonely cohesion and certainly no team effort. Depressing uninspiring boring "rugby"

      Jay - 2010-11-22 10:10

      Very unfair to blame Jean as he is playing in a completely new Center pairing almost every week. During the season he has played some excellent rugby, and as far as painfully slow goes, dont be mislead........he is moving alot faster than he looks. Im still amazed at how quickly SA fans throw away players, who have spilt their Blood for our Country on the rugby field, as soon as they have a few bad games. Jean is one of the most influential people in SA rugby and still has alot to give. The bottom line chaps is we are missing alot of players who are injured or just didnt get picked. All we can hope for is that SARFU sort things out before the world cup.

      BardofAvon - 2010-11-22 10:50

      @ Jay: Agreed,Jean dV is still a mighty player but he needs a cohesive team around him so that he can work his magic. He is arguably the most valuable player in the team (and I am a Bulls supporter).

  • John - 2010-11-22 08:38

    John Why, playing for the Blue Bulls, Morne plays flatter than for the Boks. The Bulls score so may tries with their backs with Morne at flyhalf. If this is a game plan why not revert back to palying flat if the kicking game is not working. Is Morne not allowed to drop kick for the Bokke. Since being the pivot for the Bokke I feel his game has seriously gone down hill. I think the counching staff are not doing their bit. If our forwards do not dominate we loose the plot and are useless. The only function of the backs is to defend at the moment. They are truly very very boring.

      Emile - 2010-11-22 09:57

      Easy to answer your question. The Bulls team has a coach and 2 "real" assistant coaches. That is the bottom line.

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 10:15

      Agree, ...the Bulls have decent coaches.... .....not AA paloooookas....

  • Bren - 2010-11-22 08:45

    I don't mind seeing the boks lose providing they played their hearts out and they gave a good account of themselves. The way they have played without structure in attack or defence without passion without any idea. All three coaches are to blame and the players should hang their heads in shame. The last three performances were worse than the Tri-nations performances

  • themantshepo - 2010-11-22 08:49

    would the vroteas i mean rugby proteas team just give it up already, you are not the best team in the world, you are not the second best team in the world you are not even the fourth best team in the world you are somwhere between the 5th and 7th best team in the world now days..... you are useless can't even beat scotland......the mighty ALL BLACKS brezed past all these nothern hemispere teams without breaking a sweat showing they still had a few games to go and far from the so called peaking too early myth...come the world cup next year i hope the ALL BLACKS play the proteas in the quarter final and whip them 50-0, this proteas team are done finished kapoet hahahaha

      cathyharris10 - 2010-11-22 10:14

      the proteas are the cricket team ...... Boks still called boks, (vrot or not) you uninformed idiot!!

      andrew.kay1 - 2010-11-22 10:49

      Yawn, another black racist with a chip on his shoulder. This traitorous support for the ABs by some sectors of our population is beyond me. Tshepo, you are not 'The man". You are a sorry excuse for a sad human being. Get over your hatred for and sense of inferioirity to white people in this country. Rugby is not a "white" sport. Support your country and get a life. Otherwise keep your childishness to yourself.

      Zoolie - 2010-11-22 10:53

      @ THEMANTSHEPO - Go back into your little hole and comment your banana banana team, the Springboks are still rated as the 2nd best team in the world. You clearly dont watch or follow the game and making statements like that just comes to show you`ll try and insult us where you can. No one is proud of what happened this weekend, but please get your facts staright, i dont see Bafana Bafana winning any games.

      ChumScrubber - 2010-11-22 12:36

      @Zoolie - now you go and behave like TheMantshepo and criticise Bafana, as if Bafana only belongs to a certain sector of the population. Come on, Bokke, Proteas, Bafana - all our national teams belong to all of us, don't try to polarise our sport along racial lines! He's correct the AB's are consistently the best performing team in the world, but to support another countries team over your own - that is weak man. He must be one of those ou's who throws his litter out the car window - use our country as a dustbin. Thats how much he feels for it.

  • Ant - 2010-11-22 08:53

    The Springbok team is like a very quick and powerful tank with a monkey behind the wheel.

      BardofAvon - 2010-11-22 10:51

      Well said, Ant!

      GTFO - 2010-11-22 12:21

      thats racist!

      blessedstarchild - 2010-11-24 11:27

      Well said. A drunk monkey that had a papsak wine.

  • swart59 - 2010-11-22 08:53

    Best possible outcome for this weekend would be a good thumping by the English, because that would probably be the only way to finally motivate SARU to stand up to their political puppet masters and provide the hard reset Springbok Rugby needs. Nothing personal against PdV and his 2 lieutenants, but Springbok rugby has been on life support in 2010, and now clearly requires shock therapy just to be able to get past the knockout phase of the 2011 World Cup. Apart from the injured, we do seem to have most of our best players in action this year and things have not been going well at all. It makes no sense to retain the caoches and continue to wallow in misery - just change itself wouldf create some positive energy which would flow to our players. The forwards are not too far off the mark, but the current backline is wasting the ball. If Allistair Coetzee and Nick Mallet could potentially get along, and one of either Eddy Jones or John Mitchell is added to the mix, I believe we would see a massive improvement, perhaps in time for a decent showing at the World Cup.

      BardofAvon - 2010-11-22 10:53

      Ummm, swart, I don't think that the South African Racial Union will be watching the game, do you?

  • Shayne - 2010-11-22 08:56

    Read the third paragraph in this article. It clearly states that many coaches have been sacked for far less. Why is he still here? It is clear that PDV has no current gameplan or long term goals. And if he does why do we not know about it?? Every week we are seeing up and under's giving away possession then doing it all over again once we eventually get the ball. If the coach wanted to stop it it would have stopped ages ago. No point blaming the players. And now Lambie is being looked to as a possible "Last throw of the dice" WTF is going on in SA Rugby where we need to use a 20 year old "debut" player to try and scrape a good win. It is extremely unfair on the player and just shows how much PDV/SARU are desperately clutching at straws. I don't want to sound stereotype here or anything but this is shocking coaching compared to the J White era. Sure J White did also loose a lot of matches leading up to 2007 RWC but the difference is that Jake had a plan. He said that he is going to build a team to win RWC. And he delivered! Every loss taught him a little more and he used that knowledge. And after that we had a clean sweep. IRB team of the year (Springboks) IRB player of the year. (Habana) IRB Coach of the year (J White) and 2007 RWC champs.. Barely 3 years later we are the laughing stock of world rugby.. So I beg U.. What is PDV plan?????

      Boomklouer - 2010-11-23 12:40

      Why is it a mystery to you? He can't read!! He's got a plan but reads it upside down! That is why the forwards are most of the time acting as backs and the backs try to run isolated over droves of defenders, yes even Gio Aplon's 78 kg's (of which half is heart and the other half balls!) Ofcourse there is a NALP!!

  • Michael - 2010-11-22 08:58

    Boks 17 Scotland 21. NZ 49 Scotland 3 - Enough said!

      Emile - 2010-11-22 09:59

      Spot on my friend. Look at the score board. What is shocking is the fact that even the Scots played poorly and they don't even have any world class players.

  • bill - 2010-11-22 09:01

    Conduct the dope tests on Gold, de Villiers and Muir. They must be on some powerful stuff not to be in touch with reality.

      BardofAvon - 2010-11-22 10:57

      Clown has aleady passed the "Dope" test!

  • Weepee - 2010-11-22 09:04

    I'm going to go with Rich on this. Right now Morne Steyn is so one dimensional a 2 year old can read him. This is fine when his kicking out of hand is pin point accurate but if he is slighly off then all he is doing is giving the opposition the ball. Agree again that if you going with Lambie then play McLeod. Why not because lets face it the side that played Scotland will not beat England. In short there is nothing to lose.

      mike - 2010-11-22 09:19

      The problem is the game plan, changing players doesn't mean changing game plan, thats just ridiculous. If Div will switch to a running game Morne is more then capable of excecuting one. He only learnt to kick when he was 20, his a running flyhalf but doesn't help when he is told to stand deep and kick by his coach. Stop blamming the players for the game plan and realise its the coaches job to dictate how the team plays. Playing Lambie will make no differance unless the instruction to him is to retain the ball.

      BardofAvon - 2010-11-22 10:59

      Weepee... Morne is a fantastic player under the right coach. Remember, he is a deadly cog in the Blou Masjien...

      Mr. B - 2010-11-22 11:25

      Weepee - fully agree dude, everyone is bitching Jean de Villiers, but the big let down in the side is Morne Steyn. Granted he's a brilliant kicker, but that is where it ends, finished and klaar. In a test match environment, everything is faster and he is being caught behind the gain line time and time again. This results in pressure on the centres who are always on the back foot. Jean de Villiers made some big yards over the gain line, under huge pressure that was created by Steyn, as well as Hougaard, whose usual snappy service was rubbish in the wet. Another massive bugger up for us was our "tactical" kicking, bombs that were too deep, missing touch when you've got arguably the best line out in the world, sloppy box kicks from the base of the scrum, it was a shocker display. @ MIke, Morne Steyn is NOT a running flyhalf cuz, if you want to see a running flyhalf, look at Dan carter, or even Pat Lambie. Blaming the coaching staff is also bollocks. These are players who are paid millions a year because tha should have the tactical acumen to realise that if something is not working, you change it. A kicking game plan is fine, if its not all you do, there has to be some variation, but if you see you are getting your arse handed to you on the field, you need to be able to change, and Steyn doesn't have that natural footballing mind to be able to execute properly.

      mike - 2010-11-22 13:26

      @Mr B - Have you ever played a team sport in your life. Do you just decide on the day how to play and which channels etc to attack. Your ignorance is astounding in what is a proffesional sport. The coaches analyse the game and discuss tactics with the players. The players don't decide how to play, they excucute whats been relayed to them and the coach is the one who has to answer why the tactics didn't work not the players, unless excecution was to blame. Do you honestly believe professional sport men and women just run onto the field and just do what ever feels right? Oh and your defense of JdV also just proves you clueless, his been useless this entire season yet its never his fault he plays so crap, always someone else. Ag shame poor JdV, must be the unluckiest player ever.

      Mr. B - 2010-11-22 14:38

      @Mike - actually yes, played representative rugby and hockey if you must know mate. Not disgreeing that you need a game plan, buy that fully, what I am saying is that if the plan isn't working, you need players with the requisite level of acumen to be able to adapt, and that is where my issue with Steyn lies. He's a one trick pony. Please excuse my cluelessness as I'm sure your well proven arm chair selector credentials well outweigh anyone that has actually played the game. As for Jean de Villiers, i am a fan of his, purely because he is proven quality. Have you ever tried to defend with a sieve on your inside channel ? It really isn't easy or fun, as you're always on the back foot. I'd like to get hold of the stats of tackles made in the game on Saturday, if you don't mind pulling them out your butt, I'm sure you'll see de Villiers way up there in the tackle count.

  • Gorilla - 2010-11-22 09:10

    pieter de villiers is a coaching parasite. he is using players that are doing well on other teams and hoping they slot into a bok squad and the coaching they get at their unions is sufficient to see them perform - he adds nothing. if players don't perform he drops them and hopes there is someone else to fill the gap. he is without a plan and without any idea of how to make one.

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 11:43

      PDV is a AA paloooooka.... ...just another AA failure....

  • henk v - 2010-11-22 09:12

    it is amazing that de villiers took props like oosthuizen with just to ignore the brilliance of this player. he will rather stick with van der linde who surely doesnt belong in the group. kirchner proofed for the second time he is not upto it in the bok squad with mistakes costing us dearly! mvovo and aplon could not showcase their talents as we either received the ball under pressure due to the fact that we NEVER compete or secure the ball upfront because matfield and his old buddies prefer the backline, or we received good ball ended up in the hands of matfield or one of the du plessis brothers or de villiers get ball at inside centre and NEVER passes the ball. our diccipline SUCKS and that is due to a POOR captain! Dont fire the coach, fire MATFIELD!!

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 11:40

      Henk, are a pooooophole.... ...rather fire fat boy, quota, non-merit, John Smit and quota coach PDV... ...Bismark is way better than palooooka John Smit.... ...And Matfield is in the team on merit ... ...worlds best no 5...

      boela1996 - 2010-11-22 11:43

      Nee nee moenie sê gaan kak nie henk is reg

  • Sheriff - 2010-11-22 09:12

    What a joke!!

  • Darwinia - 2010-11-22 09:13

    the Boks are already broke. it does not matter who they pick, England is going to slaughter us. We are just not as good as we want to believe we are and it is time that us as fans accept that.

  • Proffie - 2010-11-22 09:14

    Does anyone have Eddie Jones's phone number?

      Emile - 2010-11-22 09:59

      Try John Mitchell, he is closer.

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 10:18

      Try Heyneke Meyer... ...he should have been there in the first (merit) place...

      Emile - 2010-11-22 10:35

      @ Johnny. Leave Heyneke alone! Don't disturb him while he is laughing his ass off - He deserves all the humour getting dished up every Saturday.

  • twincamsam - 2010-11-22 09:20

    Well I am absolutely dumbstruck. There is no plan B. The Boks has become predictable. Same thing week in week out. The back 3 struggled with the high slippery ball. We tried the same tactics forgetting these Scots play most of their rugby in these conditions. Jean DV is used for crash balls. They can pick anyone to fulfill that role. Morne Steyn is a link at this stage. Spies predictable, pick up the ball from the scrum crashing alone. Kanko did not make a difference, in fact did he play on Saturday? I do believe that Guthro, Adries B, Heinrich B, Schalk, Fourie DP, Jaques F, Jantjies etc can make a difference… Question is do they have the guidance, leadership and game plan to make them successful?

      impete - 2010-11-22 12:32

      The problem was that there was no Plan A either!!

  • de_vos_jimmy - 2010-11-22 09:25

    The problem lies with the players on the field.Dont blame the coaches.its 15men against 15men.Why are they Boks.They cannot tackle cannot decide what to to on the field.Akll players needs to be blame.,no commitment.The coaches tell them waht to do and they not doing it.Shame on the players now everyone want to fire PDV,wongly. Think you have many caps as a Bok,and you still batlle to execute the task,PDV get rid of some of the Boks choose other players outside the bok camp who is commited. The players are mature men most are maried,how the hell can the coach still teach a player to handle a ball and teach how to tackle. Wo is running on the field,the players,What might be to blame is maybe choice of players.Who must he chose ,those you prefer is off the hooke or injured ,the only ones that are there is those you guys dont want to come on as reserves.So PDV is stuck.People we all play game like our Boks by heart and not by mind thats why we cannot execute our task 90% correct.Thats why we make mistakes over and over the same mistakes,without relise i make the mistake 2 minutes back.The Boks are not playing thinking rugby,and its not the coach fault.God give each one a healthy brain to think.

      Mr. B - 2010-11-22 11:34

      100% correct Jimmy !! If you have as many caps on the field as we did, the players should be able to read a situation and adapt. The problem is that they are one dimensional on the field. There is no one that can make the switch. Even at forward, if you can see the one man crash ball is getting hit backwards, look at moving to the three man pods that the Cheetahs and Sharks used so effectively. Also, we have to realise that our forward firepower is now being matched, the guys that are so used to being able to mow down opposition are getting smashed backwards. We need forwards (and backs) who can offload through the contact situation as well as forwards (and backs) that are running the correct channel to take the ball in the offload.

  • bill - 2010-11-22 09:25

    John Plumtree did caution against choosing Lambie as he anticipated that it would not be the happiest of tours.Wow! Guess it takes a New Zealander ( and currie cup champ coach)

  • Facts - 2010-11-22 09:32

    We can relax because nothing will happen to PdV. He will be with the Boks until the Word Cup next year. He hasn't got a game plan and never had. He is involved with certain senior Bok players (captains) in business deals and that is a big WRONG to start off with. After the WC next year they will appoint a new coach with proper vision again which will start from nothing to build a champion Bok team for the 2015 WC. So till then, sit back, relax and enjoy the clowns. This obviously includes everyone at SARU as well.

  • CheekyChap - 2010-11-22 09:33

    match fixing?

  • Justin - 2010-11-22 09:35

    The loss to Scotland is a blessing in disguise. The Grand Slam dream is over, so Div can throw caution to the wind, and try something new in preperation for the World Cup. Unfortunately if we win, he'll probably stay on, but lets give ball in hand attacking rugby a chance. No up n unders from our own 22 please, no kicking away after a rolling maul, and when you have three minutes left don't give the ball to Ruaan. My 15 for Saturday; 15 - Morne Steyn (Keep him on the field, just don't play him at 10!) 14 - Gio Aplon (better on the wing) 11 - Lwazi Mvovo (someone give him the ball!) 13 - Jean Devilliers (swop) 12 - Frans Steyn (swop) 10 - Pat Lambie (can move to 12 later) 9 - Charl McLeod (full 80) 8 - Willem Alberts (move to 7 at 50min) 7 - Juan Smith (Move to lock at 50min, and bring Kanko on?) 6 - Keegan Daniel (full 80min) 5 - Matfield (Only bring on Hargreaves if Matfield looses his head) 4 - Bakkies (take off after 50, and move Juan in to 4) 3 - Beast (full 80 please) 2 - Bismaak (full 80 please) 1 - Jannie (Bring on CJ for last 20) On the bench: CJ, Strauss, Hargreaves (4 or 5), Kankowski (7 or 8), Spies (8 or wing), Ruan Pienaar (9, 10,15), Hougaard (9 or wing).

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 10:22

      What is Jean de Villiers doing in your team..?? ...he is useless... .......and Daniel Keegan at no 6... ...joke...!!

      GraemeBB - 2010-11-22 10:31

      Justin - are you smoked you shark??

      Emile - 2010-11-22 10:44

      Thank goodness you are not a coach. Hope you enjoyed your wet dream - not even a decent wet dream.

      pop101 - 2010-11-22 11:00

      What!!! Are you must be joking, right?

      Jason - 2010-11-22 11:18

      I like this team - well thought out. Other than your number 4 and 7 subs - rather leave Juan at 7 and bring Flip on at 4 on 60 minutes. I love Kanko but he is no replacement for Juan. Or, take off Keegan to bring on Kanko and move Willem to 6. I like the centre swap, and Morne at 15 is a great idea - dunno why I never thought of it before.

      boela1996 - 2010-11-22 11:47

      Ek weet hoekom sê hulle vir jou is jy mal.... Jy moet net vir morne uithaal en dan is die span weer reg

      Sheriff - 2010-11-22 12:38

      `n Goeie span!!

      ChumScrubber - 2010-11-22 12:48

      Lambie should be fullback and Morne flyhalf. I think Steyn is overated (Francois), he makes too many blunders - I don't think that makes up for his "precocious talent". Once Jaques is back I'd move Steyn to the bench. Otherwise - not a bad team, think the Bulls okes are a bit hysterical. (I'd love Spies on the wing, bit broad minded for many to deal with though)

      Player23 - 2010-11-22 12:54

      awesome team dude!! Except you begin to lose it with whatever is said in the brackets.

  • andy5459 - 2010-11-22 09:36

    The coach is useless but sad to say so is the side as a whole . even with another coach this side would battle to win the currie cup . one has the impression the game on a saturday is an unwelcome interruption in their lifestyles , and they only pitch up for their R 75 000 match fee. forget about the RWC next year it will never be fixed in time . certainly dont waster money going to NZ . Unfortunately what is needed to fix things is a revolution from the top , and that is not going to happen - people who are there are too comfortable to give up their high paying jobs without a fight

  • campsbaygirl - 2010-11-22 09:39

    Its not just PDiv, the entire coaching staff have to take the blame for failing to notice that rugby has moved on from the 'crash and bash' era.

  • pop101 - 2010-11-22 09:45

    You can only go broke if you have something - we have nothing.

  • Emile - 2010-11-22 09:48

    Fair comments in general, but boy can't we all see this dude is a prima Shark supporter. Lambie, Mcleod & Daniel being punted big time. All three not suited for European conditions and Lambie quite dissapointing so far on tour. There is nothing wrong with most of the 50 or so players used by Div this year, the problem is PDV. Since last WC, the Boks haven't shown any innovation in any game. Can't remember when last, if ever, a planner move was even tried by the Boks. Looking at them against Wales, Ireland and Scotland, it was quite evident in each game which side was the best coached unit. Even Italy looked better coached in June.

      ChumScrubber - 2010-11-22 12:51

      How can you even judge Lambie - he's hardly played. You can judge him if he starts, don't wish bad things on the okie just because he's a threat to your glory boy. Problem is PDV and Muir - look what Muir did to the Lions.

  • Wayne - 2010-11-22 09:52

    I am at a loss for Springbok supporters lets actually take a stand and boycott watching this ongoing debacle. Let's see an empty "Bok" town this weekend. I am certainly not going to put myself through anymore misery !!!!! I ask you with tears in my eyes and as a loyal bok supporter how can such a pool of talent be SO direction....LESS. Super 14 champions, world champs ?????? I just do not know. If a company is failing what do the shareholders do ?? GET RID OF THE MANAGEMENT and that goes for all of them not just PDV...............

      Emile - 2010-11-22 10:46

      We "Afrikaners" (people for South Africa) are way to slapgat my friend. We will never stand together and demand what we deserve.

      antonvzyl - 2010-11-22 11:32

      Nooo, let us get Claire Johnson to sing the National Anthem again, at least we will have something to look forward to. I have to wear a paper bag over my head today, the Jocks around me cannot stop laughing. Where do we get this moronic insistence of kicking away every ball, (we got hidings in primary school for doing it, you do not kick away posession), even the Scottish commentators got bored with our game. Aaaagggghhh, Saturday may be a 54-3 again if we carry on like now.

  • burger.hoon - 2010-11-22 09:53

    If I was P diddy I would resign, at least it shows some pride.

  • Johnny - 2010-11-22 10:13

    Dit moet seker moerse frusterend vir Victor Matfield wees om onder 'n k@k afriger soos Helium te speel... ....wat kan Helium werklik tot die span toevoeg..?????? ....arme Matfield...

  • Elf1nDrak3 - 2010-11-22 10:28

    Sack him and get it over with. Div doesn't deserve to be coach. Get Jake back or even Heineke.

  • Delarey - 2010-11-22 10:30

    Get rid of PDV. He should have gone ages ago. We have been holding on by the skin of our teeth for ages now as we slip down the rankings! We can't always rely on our experienced players’ guts and an improvised game plan on the field to win games. It was one game too far!!! He must go. he is pathetic and to top it all he makes the most insane substitutions at the craziest time!! Yes Steward Dickhead is a moron and it was pathetic the way he dished out the cr.p on the Bokke but it should never have been that close that a a.hole like that should make a difference! Stuff quotas and affirmative action put a proper coach and the correct players on the field! 2011 is looking bleak and the powers that be only have themselves to blame. Embarrassing!!!!

  • Llewellyn - 2010-11-22 10:37

    Johnny do yourself a favour and count how many western province players there are in the current team,i think you are obviously sour because you have no brain power to work this out.Anyway yes the team sucks right now but how do you play ruan pienaar never ever impressed me in any of his games.Keegan Daniel is a by miles a better fetcher than Stegman and still they persist with him.I am sorry to say that my feeling is that England is going to rip us to pieces on saturday coming and please Peter DV and coaching team dont do to Lambie what you did to Skinstad when he was just still in his baby shoes.Build these youngsters first and why not give Jantjies also a chance to show what he is made of.Pity about Jaque Fourie not being there,i believe there is no better centre pairing than Fourie and De Villiers.Zane Kirschner is hopeless to say the least wont say what i really think of him.Strange that the teams that were on top of the curry cup,especially Western Province had no forwards in the team.Anyway hope they do something on Saturday instead of falling out the bus completely.

      Johnny - 2010-11-22 11:26

      Daniel Keegan a better fetcher than Deon Stegmann..?? must be brain-dead... .....any other stupid comments..???

      Louw - 2010-11-22 12:44

      @Jonny kan sien jy weet $%^$5 van rugby af nie want enige ander speler in die span is n beter fetcher as stegman. Hy is n overated speler. Biscmark fetch meer balle as hy. Gaan kyk weer die games

  • Dewet - 2010-11-22 10:43

    Can the media please get hold of and post Pieter de Villiers CV, before being offered the coaching job of the best team in the world. Then also post Jake White and all predecessors’ CV's (before landing the Bok coach job). This way we can show the whole of the world what a racist country this still is and that minorities are now on the receiving end of discrimination as was feared by them all along. De Villiers has not earned this position on experience- this is all skin color. Please De Villiers, have some decency and resign before you do more damage to this country. Sport is instrumental in uniting people from all races except if it is used to divide them further because of racial discrimination, as is the case in your appointment. Man up! Pieter de Villiers has received the best players ever produced in SA ( Southern Hemisphere dominators in Super 14 for how many years? ), but he has managed to turn them into a team that struggles to beat mediocre teams. Please, enough with the racist appointments in sport. Appoint on merrit and let this guy with the CV of a high school coach go.

      Wendell - 2010-11-22 12:33

      De Wet, with all due respect, you obviously don't know too much about rugby... PdV has the exact same credentials as JW. Both came through the ranks of coaching junior SA sides. Both won their respective WCups. Both were teachers! Racists? So why was JW good enough and PdV not? Go check your stats. PdV has a MUCH BETTER record than JW. Only difference is PdV haven't won a WC yet and that's only becasue he hasn't coached in one yet. JW has NEVER won in NZ. NEVER, EVER! Even with this same WC winning team. Your comments makes me sick, because you are attacking the man and not his gameplan (or lack thereof). So, if JW was appointed on merrit, then you can say the same about PdV! I'm also very P$#% off with PdV and the players because they looked like a bunch of idiots on the field against Scotlands. To the effect that I don't even want to watch any Sprinbok game anymore, because why put myself through this hell? So think carefully mr Dewet and get your facts right.

      Dewet - 2010-11-22 13:33

      @Wendell > "De Wet, with all due respect, you obviously don't know too much about rugby...": OK, let's try to be objective instead and approach this with intelligence: The biggest difference is that Jake white did not inherit a team consisting of players that have for several years dominated the Super 14. Read my article again and then comment. Jake white took a team which was filled with less talented players and turned them into a decent team. Pdv did exactly the opposite. The springboks have had the advantage of selection from dominating sides in the toughest provincial tournament in world rugby. Jake white did not have this. Why does every body seem to miss this basic logic? Furthermore, if you can read and possess logic, I said: "all predecessors’ CV's". Let's see this and then make comments with regards to my logic. Can I quote some info: "White was appointed as head coach of the national team in early 2004 when South African rugby was in turmoil following their poor performance at the 2003 World Cup" "Under White's guidance the Springboks began to slowly win back their respectability in world rugby. " Pieter de Villiers possesses nothing that is expected of a person in such a senior position. Not sure where you grew up and what your standards are for community or world leaders, but according to mine, he falls way under. Where I grew up he would not have even made the cut for university coach, based on all-round merit. He does not have the qualities of someone in such an important position. Why is he there? Alistair Coetzee, for instance would be a top choice of mine. But def not Pdv. He is an embarrassment.

      Dewet - 2010-11-22 13:51

      I quote again: "Following the acrimonious conclusion of Jake White's tenure as head coach, after South Africa's Rugby World Cup victory in France in November 2007, De Villiers was short-listed for the role along with three other candidates, including successful Bulls coach Heyneke Meyer. In January 2008, De Villiers was appointed as the first ever non-white coach of the Springboks, but South African Rugby Union (SARU) President Oregan Hoskins indicated that his rugby credentials were not the sole motivation for the appointment: "We have made the appointment and taken into account the issue of transformation when we made it. I don't think that tarnishes Peter; I'm just being honest with our country." " So he beats out the very, very [, very] successfull bulls coach (PS I hate the B bulls, but I have to admit they have probably the best record of recent years) with a proven senior rugby coaching record and then Oregan Hoskins states it's a political employment. Wake up.

  • maree.bester - 2010-11-22 10:44

    You know what, this has become the joke that everyone in the southern hemisphere perceives us to be... Jake white was winning and he got fired or sorry not reinstated. this monkey is losing and not getting half the flack every single other coach got. If it is transformation they want that is exactly what he has given them, he has transformed a world cup winning team to a losing bunch of looney's who can't make the right decision if it was given to them. If they are worried about the amount of time before the world cup then really what have we got to lose WE ARE LOSING ANYWAY. Come SARU you have been known to make fairly good decisions with a couple of exceptions but this one is a no brainer ( excuse the pun DIV)

  • GraemeBB - 2010-11-22 10:48

    We see week after week that Lambie is not ready, but we want to use him on Saturday. Desperation. We dont have a back line that can score tries, and our midfield is the problem. How we miss Jaques Fourie. Our forwards can deliver, but this weekend was a shambles - we can recover. But what do we do with the ball when we get it?? I cant see us beating England, but I dont think the margin is going to be huge. Lets see. BOK till I die

      Mr. B - 2010-11-22 11:51

      Graeme, based on what is lambie not ready mate ? The kid is quality, through and through. He needs time on the park and in a way, getting the full 80 against England could be great as Toby Flood isn't the greatest number 10 around. Only once we have a pivot that can unleash the backline are we going to see any form of recovery. Also, we need to look at our loosies to make sure that if we are going to play expansively, they are mobile enough to be there in support, so Daniel on for Stegmann, who has been terrible. All this noise about a fetcher flank is unwarranted as we have probably the best fetcher in the team in Bismark du Plessis, he's quick, gets there in time (even from the centre of the scrum) and believe me, if he gets his hands on the ball, its coming back, probably with the opponents arms too if the silly bugger doesn't let it go. We have a quality backline, that at the moment have been reduced to a defensive line of tackle bags because they never get good clean ball on the front foot. I'd love to see Mvovo with a bit of space, as well as Aplon countering from 15. Backline needs to be: 9 Pienaar (wet) Hougaaard (dry) 10 Lambie (full 80 mins) 11 Mvovo 12 Steyn F 13 J de Villiers (Strauss on the bench/ subbed at 50 minutes if its not working out) 14 Hougaard (Dry) Aplon (Wet) 15 Aplon (dry) Kirchner (wet) Forwards 1 Beast 2 Bismark 3 Jannie 4 Bakkies 5 Matfield 6 Keegan Daniel 7 Juan Smith (Alberts subbed on at 40min) 8 Spies ( Kankowski on at 60min)

  • drjohan.gouws - 2010-11-22 11:02

    I was just wondering when \Elton Jantjies would get a chance on the bench, certainly he had a fantastic season for the Lions and deserves a chance. Mornè Steyn can't get the backline going and it seems as if the team has only one plan and that is to storm into the opssosiotion with the forwards and lose the ball. Want to see real running rugby, then Elton Jantjies is your man ... Put de Villiers and Lambie on the centre and Francois Steyn at fullback where he belongs. What's the use of choosing players on tour like Jantjies en Keegan Daniels and never giving them a chance. Why can't Willem Alberts start the game and stay there?

  • Tsotsi - 2010-11-22 11:10

    To put it bluntly de Villiers & co been driven by a core of Bulls players or seem to be set on playing a Bulls style of rugby. As was seen in the Currie cup semi- final against Sharks it does not work. We simply kick away to much ball, try bulldoze our way through the oposition & commit to many forwards to this style, then we lose the ball cause they cannot protect properly. We rely on so many of the Bulls players to play this game plan then expect other players to follow suite. To give you 2 classic situations that showed how poor we have become using this game plan, Kankowski broke away, ran about 10m got tackled 1st player following up was Jannie du Plessis, a prop, where the hell was Stegman, Hougaard, Morne Steyn. Then the other break saw Mvovo moving but got tackled with no support We are unfit & ponderous! What concerns me is that the Sharks & WP seem to be struggling with fitness is this because our coaching staff have created a very unfit enviroment on tour that has made them lazy?? Time for SA rugby to play the youngsters on Saturday against England. Starting 15 shoud be as follows: 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Jannie 4. Victor 5. Flip van der Merwe 6. Alberts 7. Keegan Daniels 8. Kankowski 9. Charl Mcleo 10. Lambie 11. Mvovo 12. Jean de Villiers 13. Adi Jacobs 14. Aplon 15. Francois Steyn

      mike - 2010-11-22 11:37

      Dude try watching a Bulls game before you compare them to this crap dished up by the Boks. A Bulls C team would have done better against Scotland. Please keep in mind that they scored more tries then any other SA team in the Super 14 and more percentage wise were scored by their backs. Please also keep in mind that the Super 14 was played under the same rules as these internationals.

  • Jaco - 2010-11-22 11:20

    Here is how we can win the WC with our game plan ... just a few personel changes from 10-15: 10: Naas Botha - the kicks will land more accurately. No problem on defence as he will defend on the one wing, just run in fast at 45 degrees, no need to tackle. (see 11. for the other half of the plan). 12. Willem Alberts. He will get further. 13. Duane Vermeulen. Ditto, and opposition will hurt more. 11. Brussow. This will be the specialist fetcher, we will play him open side wing. As he only tackles, we may as well turnover some possesion. 14. Spies. Big, fast and can tackle in the 10 channel. Now we can try some of our other generous talent at no.8. They are allmost all playing, as no 8 is where our depth is and our plan suits them all. 15. On attack, one of the props will hang back as not required. On defence, FSteyn because he can kick the furthest and highest.

  • George Benecke - 2010-11-22 11:21

    Div went from inheriting a squad that could retain the world cup and turned then into a amateur team. The feeling in the UK is that nobody really fears the Boks anymore. And they have become a laughing stock. I mean seriously, there is a lack of game plan in them. They are predictable now. Crash ball 12... Crash ball 13.... Kick.... AND REPEAT... We have some of the best wings and quickest for that matter, but they have yet to see the ball this season. Then don't get me started on the substitutions. Can someone tell me if Morne Steyn was injured. Because i couldn't see it happen. So, then why for heaven's sake take off your best goal kicker, in rainy condition, in a tight game. Really.... Just tell me... Looks like he has pre-match decided strategy regarding substitutions and he sticks to it... You have to adapt in Test match rugby. Time for Div to go.... We tried it... It didn't work... Sollow your pride and hire Jake again. Maybe he can save this sinking ship. To come back to referee, Stuart Dickinson. He should be shot. That was a bad display by any standards. But we have to take the blame ourselves. Good sides find a way to win, even if they get bad calls.

  • boela1996 - 2010-11-22 11:29

    @ Pirewiet - Die bokke is nou besig om blou bul rugby te speel, dis hoekom ons ons gatte sien want morning steyn is k@k, hy kan net skop, die dom doos! Ons kort Elton Jantjies

  • Gay69 - 2010-11-22 11:34

    The question is, “CAN WE TEACH OLD DOGS NEW TRICKS?” Maybe we need to face facts, yes, we have talented players, but Springbok rugby has never been about exciting backline fast attacking play. We do not know how to play that kind of game. Our backline DOESN’T have the attacking flair or pace like all the other teams, England, Wallabies, & the mighty All Blacks. Just watch our backline; there is no structure or thought in the running, which is why they kick all the time. They do not have belief in themselves, why else kick position away, it really makes no sense.. We need a coach like Robbie Deans who takes no nonsense from players & challenges them & tells them if you don’t shape up, its simple you are out.. There are serious problems with the Boks, something MUST be done, hulle maak ons naam groot GAT!

  • GVA - 2010-11-22 11:37

    I doubt very much if PDW will loose his job! Hoskins will look for any reason to keep him on as coach. I can remember Jake getting summoned back to SA in the middle of a tour to explain the team’s poor performance. Will never happen with PDW, Hoskins protects him! People can blame the Ref, coach, the players or even the weather for the Boks lack of performance. There is only one man to blame and that is this politician Mr Hoskins!! He is not a rugby man who loves, and is passionate about the game. No he is a freaking self-serving ANC puppet that appoints clowns to make fools of the pride of SA rugby!!!

  • nienaber.sean - 2010-11-22 11:54

    why take Hougaard off and bring that idiot on to the field to kick the little hard earned possession away that we had?

      Sheriff - 2010-11-22 12:45

      Hougaard also kicked a lot of possession away!

  • ArtGee - 2010-11-22 12:08

    I doubt the Boks can play ANY WORSE than last Saturday. If they do, it will be a NEW LOW, and SARU will have to look at getting rid of "Helium" and his other two stooges! From World Champions, to Worlds BIGGEST Loosers in a matter of MONTHS!

  • 69BlueBoy69 - 2010-11-22 12:33

    Hi all stop trying to promote your province teams it’s such a limited view it looks like one of PDW and SARU’s views. Think big see the hole picture no matter what province you from If you are a bok then you are a bok and you should play as the bok team. Playing people out of their positions just to have them in the team is where the problems start. Jean De Villiers and Francoise Steyn what a joke. Did you all se all the mistakes been made, missed tackles by Francois Steyn ? Even the commentary on TV is influenced and need to be silent if he make a miss tackles getting one out of 5 then the commentary is all WOW Francoise Stayn stop ???/ with a tackle…it’s so dam frustrating whey are we even support any of this Circus and it’s Clowns. It all become a sitcom the days of our lives you can miss a lot of episodes and when you watch it again its exactly where it left of nothing happen in the meantime. PLAY the PLAYERS in THERE POSITIONS. If you are a FULLBACK then you are not a Center. If you are not a couch then you are not a couch don’t put people there just because we think we need it it’s politicly correct. No it’s just a Job. Then why carry on at all if it’s not about RUGBY ??? o there is money involved…and RUGBY is just the by product….It is sad because nothing is going to get better just worse that is the intension after all destroy the Game because it was the one thing that did work in this country, now it becomes like the Soccer never thought I would compare our Rugby with Our Soccer but hey what can I say it’s got the same strategist behind it.

  • StBad - 2010-11-22 12:37

    INNOVATION????? Mate (Gavin), innovation is not something that a team keeps hidden in a shed awaiting a dire situation such as this one. If they haven't done anything exciting yet, well then there sure as hell isn't a chance they'll mysteriously bring it out now!!! Especially not under the current coaching structure... What happened to the genius of Muir when he took over the Sharks, where is that magic?

  • christo.saunders - 2010-11-22 12:40

    Hi all stop trying to promote your province teams it’s such a limited view it looks like one of PDV and SARU’s views. Think big see the hole picture no matter what province you from if you are a Bok then you are a Bok and you should play as the Bok TEAM. Playing people out of their positions just to have them in the team is where the problems start. Jean De Villiers and Francois Steyn what a joke. Did you all see all the mistakes been made, missed tackles by Francois Steyn ? Even the commentary on TV is influenced and need to be silent if he make a miss tackle but when he getting one out of 5 then the commentary is all WOW Francois Steyn stop BlaBlaBal with a tackle…it’s so dam frustrating whey are we even support any of this Circus and it’s Clowns. It all become a sitcom the days of our lives you can miss a lot of episodes and when you watch it again its exactly where it left of nothing happen in the meantime. PLAY the PLAYERS in THERE POSITIONS. If you are a FULLBACK then you are not a Centre. If you are a Full bak then you are not a WING. If you are not a couch then you are not a couch don’t put people there just because we think we need it it’s politicly correct. No it’s just a Job. Then why carry on at all if it’s not about RUGBY ??? o there is money involved…and RUGBY is just the by product….It is sad because nothing is going to get better just worse that is the intension after all destroy the Game because it was the one thing that did work in this country, now it becomes like the Soccer. I never thought I would compare our Rugby with Our Soccer but hey what can I say it’s got the same strategist behind it.