Lions in SA

IRB charge SARU over protest

2009-07-06 18:37
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SARU charged over protest (Gallo)

Dublin - The South Africa Rugby Union were charged on Monday by the sport's governing body the International Rugby Board for alleged Misconduct in breach of the IRB Regulations Relating to the Game including breaches of the IRB Code of Conduct.

The IRB pressed the charges because the Springboks wore armbands during the Third Test defeat to the British and Irish Lions on Saturday as a symbol of solidarity for Bakkies Botha following the upholding of his two-week suspension by an independent Appeal Committee for dangerously charging into a ruck without binding on a player.

The IRB takes the view that such an act demonstrates a clear disregard of the disciplinary process and does so in a manner which brings, or has the potential to bring, the Game into disrepute.

The IRB has notified the South Africa Rugby Union that it intends to begin the disciplinary proceedings. The matter will now be referred to the independent Judicial Panel Chairman who will appoint a Judicial Officer or Committee.

Botha was banned for two weeks for the second-half charge in the Springboks nailbiting second Test victory over the Lions - which gave them the series - on Adam Jones that left the Welsh prop needing corrective surgery to right a dislocated shoulder.

The Springbok and Lions coaching staff, as well as Jones, have insisted that they saw nothing untoward in the second-rower's charge, arguing he had merely been clearing a ruck.

"As a sign of solidarity the Springbok players decided to wear white arm bands during the Test match," said Piet Heymans, head of the South African Rugby Players Association (SARPA).

"At the same time the players want to send a clear message that they require the IRB to have an urgent and serious relook at Law 10.4 (j)."

 

Your Comments

Die dawg7/15/2009 2:53 PM
Whatever, he got banned and and its over now. I still felt a little smile, though, when I read "...Welsh prop needing corrective surgery to right a dislocated shoulder." :) Pasop vir die springbok, mnr. khaki
Jacques7/14/2009 10:06 PM
Personally I think the IRB will bring my most loved game into refute.Because I felt that Bakkies Botha did not deserve the citing.So good for SA springboks to stand up for the sake of rugby.
Jan7/10/2009 3:12 PM
Loyalty is one thing, disregard of a disciplinery action another. The IRB expects loyalty and disregard to be the same. Loyalty is upwards just as it goes down the ranks. Disciplinery actions always goes down, never upwards - while in this case the IRB should be disciplined. The IRB is only loyal to a certain group. Go Bokke, you are loyal to the game, now play it!
BUFFALO7/10/2009 8:19 AM
I remember the days when rugby was rugby--- then along came the IRB and since then rugby has being kicked into touch!!
Bulls Fan7/9/2009 8:41 PM
I have been reading many of the threads on various rugby sites without commenting, but I have had enough. It is completely ludicrous to expect players in a professional era not to protest a governing body's decision when they impact directly on their earning potential and future employment opportunities. These players play rugby for a living, they are employed by their unions and have a right to protest unfair disciplinary action. Our constitution guarantees every one the right to free speech, to organise and to protest, should our rugby players be excluded from these rights, purely because their actions will be unpopular with those who are benefiting from the injustice to begin with. All off you who are defending the right of construction workers to strike over wages, should be backing up our boys, as they are doing nothing different. They are looking out for their future earning capability and their professional reputations. If you were being treated unjustly at work, would you sit idly by, and if you did who would you have to blame for your situation....
Player 237/9/2009 3:02 PM
Although I am a massive Bok supporter and bleed green and gold each time they play I dont agree with the white arm bands that the Boks wore on Saturday. No matter how much they disagreed with the outcome they need to respect the decisions of those in authority and not make things worse for themselves. Bakkies does get into trouble far to often so is an easy target watched closely by the assistant refs so any little bit of rumbling with him will be noticed. He did injure Jones quite badly and the 2 week suspension and the not playing in the 3rd test is punishment enough. Boks need to leave the politics in the change room and rather focus on playing a good and clean game. Bakkies and Schalk need to watch their tempers and just play the bloody game.
DG NORTIER7/7/2009 3:38 PM
Excellent , how are the IRB going to defend their own position. An apparent innocent player was banned for 2 weeks, the IRB should defend their case in a court of justice... It should be possible to prove that Botha was suspended based on the fact that Jones was actually injured in the not on the basis of a dangerous tackle... Should the ruling be in favour of the IRB a presedent is created, players can now be suspended due to the fact the tackled player was injured... Another legal implication may be that the injured player has an easier route claiming compensation from the tackler...
Donald Trump7/7/2009 2:11 PM
Its OK let the IRB charge SARU..I,m sure there was a about 20 mil surplus with the last financial year end.They first thought Hoskins pocket the money ,but it turned out the auditor was an idiot who bought his qualifications.He couldnt count...
rebcraig7/7/2009 1:38 PM
IAN Deface the Springbok jersey with the white protest slogan? Man what do you call that HORRIBLE flipping protea badge on the left?????? Now that is defacing!
Graham7/7/2009 12:43 PM
Cire @ 11.05. You must really feel bad about being beaten by a bunch of Springboks with a collective maturity of a 2 year old. The maturity of the Lions must then be pathetic and their Pomms and Leprechaun supporters like yourself even worse.
Ivan7/7/2009 12:38 PM
I've often thought that if the Home Unions want to carry on with this obsession of theirs, namely, the Lions, they should play all their international matches as such. It would also mean of course that they would have ONE vote on the IRB not FIVE. Talk about having it both ways!!!
Charles7/7/2009 12:36 PM
The IRB is as bad as FIFA - no one dare criticise them or it starts to throw a tantrum. Considering the low standard of refereeing in general it is surprising that someone like the honourable mr Dickinson has not been stoned yet.. Moreover, SA players have for many years been singled out for draconian punishments whilst the rest walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist. For a short while it seemed that justice was actually creeping into the system but she has bee ejected in favour of prejudiced decicions without merit. The IRB will serve the game much better if they rather investigate the root causes of on field fracas in stead of throwing their toys out like spoilt children
Cameron7/7/2009 12:06 PM
Whether Bakkies & Schalk did it on purpose or not. The end of the story is you must do anything in your power to win a game/war!!! GO BOKKE!!
wiledog7/7/2009 12:06 PM
i support the 'Boks' & SARU actions 100%. this arbitrary citing nonsense needs to be sorted out!
John7/7/2009 11:26 AM
@Cire: In case you haven't noticed - rugby is a form of war, therefore it calls for aggression. Evidently you yourself suffer from delusions of grandeur, so please leave rugby for real men and confine yourself to your pitiful little world.
Deano7/7/2009 11:19 AM
I agree with the protest. It was not just about Bakkie's suspension, but also about the IRB making continuous changes to the game that are fundamentally changing rugby. The protest was as much against the reasoning behind the guilty verdict and rejection of the appeal as it was about the outcome. The IRB with too much Australian influence, seem determined to turn Rugby Union into Rugby League.....about time someone took a stand.
Willem7/7/2009 11:16 AM
In my opinion, the IRB is out of line here. They cannot make rules and then see to it that those don't get applied universally. Will Carling said they're a bunch of old farts, it seems that this is true. The IRB has the obligation to implement the laws, but: By them saying that they will charge SA, they are manifesting dictatorship.If laws are not quesionted, autocracy and dictatorship follow. They cannot be in a position where they are unquestioned or unquestionable, they are only people. Their ruling that their word is final, would have been questionable at best, but in actual fact, if their word was final, why do the Bokke actually have a point? Maybe the IRB should re-watch all 3 Lions tests and see the actual amount of contraventions performed by both sides. The Bakkies incident was repeated before and after his dismissal also, by other players.The IRB are not without fault in this matter. Will IRB also charge the ARU now? It's good that the Bokke stand together, it sets a beautiful example for the rest of SA:Stand up against injustice.
Cire7/7/2009 11:05 AM
If nothing else this whole incident has demonstrated that the Springboks have the collective maturity of a two-year old - and that the bulk of their supporters suffer delusions of paranoia. The only reason world rugby dislikes japies is because so many of them are such totally aggressive and nattractive characters - see the comments below for the evidence.
Hpfireball7/7/2009 10:58 AM
Next game wear them AGAIN!!! Sick and tired of our players being targeted by citing commissioners!! Super 14, Tri Nations, End of year tour we always get cited but when O Dricoll shoulder chargers and knock Dannie out its called a head clash!
Balsak7/7/2009 10:52 AM
A very-very SAD day for SA Rugby!! It's SA vs IRB (the rest of the world), it's almost like being back in the apartheid days....us against the world! John and the rest of the team...well done, I believe your tactics were effective, the world took notice, and that's what we wanted. Don't let the IRB get you down guys....WE ARE RUGBY!!
John7/7/2009 10:49 AM
@Clem: Why would we want to be endeared to the IRB? Why respect a referee that is clearly in the wrong? This toe the line rubbish at all costs is absolute bullshit. I can't wait for the day that a guy like Bakkies totally loses it and slaps the ref silly. @Burgiesburnin: your obsession with schoolboys is worrying.
Burgiesburnin7/7/2009 10:08 AM
Boys, boys, boys. when you all get back to school after the holidays, you should all demand that the sports teacher explains in detail the rules of rugby. After all, your national coach went out of his way to make sure that you understood that only he knows what he,s talking about and you lot know nothing. Have you thought that he may be the one that is right and that you lot are just confussed little boys? If your current teacher cant help, maybe the one at big school will be able to when you get there in a couple of years.
Clem7/7/2009 10:03 AM
Guys its all about example. For the world champions to undermine authority of the IRB whilst at the same time we are trying to nuture respect for the referee in the youngsters was a massive mistake of judgement. Which could also be said for the team selection last Saturday. Also, if indeed the 'Boks' are persecuted, which does sound a little bit paranoid, do you really think this will endear you to the IRB. The action been taken against SA suggests not. All this points to one man PDV, a great series has been comprimised by this man. His decision making in about every area seems totally spontaneous and anagonistic. You really should need to tell the manager of the world champions to think before he speaks.
Fissim7/7/2009 10:00 AM
No, no, no Boks, you are supposed to be a professional outfit, whats with the crappy little armbands. What happened to the Old School who would just have "knuckeled down and got on with the job". Bits of masking tape to make a point smacks of Ronaldo falling down and writhing in agony when someone gets closer than 20mm, mwaaaaaaah, sniff, sniff,blub, blub ... look what they have done to us. You are not footballers. Get up, suck it up, knuckle down and get on with it and unfortunately you didnt do Bakkies or yourselves, or player 23 (who forked over a grand) any favours by getting ignominously clobbered on the day by a team that showed some Old School grit and determination.
@Burgiesburnin7/7/2009 9:58 AM
Hail ! o King of the sweeping statement: "Grow up, if you carry on like this, world rugby does not need or want you". Hmm, does that mean the world needs or wants people like you ???. Fat chance ! Whinge on son !
Russell7/7/2009 9:33 AM
Ok jokes asside, if you want to prove a point do it with the score line. How can you field a second rate side and hope to make a point other than you have no idea what you are doing. The Springboks should always be the cream of the crop at all times. If you devalue the brand you cheapen the spectacle. This is a hugely professional sport and as thus should be run by the very best that money can buy. The previously disadvantaged players that make the side on merit should not be made to play with under achieving players less they be judged equal by association. C'mon guys, we are the world champs lets lose the world chimp status.
Deon7/7/2009 9:32 AM
More than 50% of all yellow and red cards in the 2009 Super 14 season were issued to the five SA teams. But to say that SA players were targeted is silly, as most of those cards were issued by SA officials. SA rugby should work on its discipline, on and off the pitch.
attitude7/7/2009 9:11 AM
I am glad the Boks got rid of their "sorry-mister" attitude... It is about time they stand up for their rights, and victimization of Bakkies Botha... The Boks always receive the short end of the stick from the rugby judges...Well done Boks...!!
Bugger7/7/2009 9:07 AM
@ Burgiesburnin - in the words of Brian O'Driscoll......bring it on mate....and we did,and you lot couldn't handle it.When the going gets physical,the British get whining,THATS why your empire didn't last as long as the Romans my friend,because you found anything and everything to moan and groan about.The fact that the "colonies" best you in just about every conceivable sport there is,makes you bitter,and loathful of the rest of the world.Build a bridge and get over it wanker.
Selma7/7/2009 9:05 AM
Too bad the Boks did not present a united force when the Springbok emblem was replaced by a sugurbush. Do players have any say in rugby or do they just tow the line for their paycheck? As for the French! What happened to the Tricolor? Their outfit is pathetic, gone are the red socks, white shorts, and light blue jersy. Not tres chique.
Russell7/7/2009 8:58 AM
Armband schwarmband, who the hell was that side that played the Lions on Saturday. They could not even have one scrum without falling apart. PdV has to be the biggest tosser we have ever had as a national coach. I enjoyed the comment from one of the players and I quote, "We don't listen to him, he talks but we just do what we know is right" Talk about window dressing with an upside down dummy. (The dummy refers to the window dressing dummies used by shop keepers for all those who will jump to the wrong conclusion)
farts7/7/2009 8:57 AM
The IRB is a bunch of old farts...!!
AB7/7/2009 8:51 AM
AB's would not deface the jersey.....Can't wait for AB's vs Box game I hope they are wearing the pretty armlets as apparently it's NZ 500 for every armband and NZD1,000 for the master prize Matfield headpiece..... It is just such a clever idea the armbands whoever came up with the idea must be a genius.... Duh!!!
Captain7/7/2009 8:39 AM
After the 1995 world cup it was the South African players, let by Francois Pienaar, who stood up and demanded that the game of rugby be professionalised as to ensure a better environment for the players and better benefits that gave them a more stable working environment. There was an uproar about there actions back then but today every single rugby player is benefitting from there initiative, and the game of rugby has improved. Now it is South Africa again that is taking on a system that does not work and is unfair towards the players. We are the world leaders when it comes to this game of rugby both on and off the field, if we don't do it then no one will. The rest of the rugby world is a bunch off sheep who needs someone to lead them, and that someone is us. Go Bokke this no 23 is behind you all the way.
TJ7/7/2009 8:31 AM
Yes the armband was a stupid idea and yes they should've just accepted it and gotten on with the game whether or not they felt the tackle was fair or not. The thing that bugs me are the anti-South Africans that post their comments on here. Pack up your bags and leave if you haven't already, no one cares about your self pitying comments and how wonderful you are and how bad South Africa is. This is a chance for people to comment on an article not on your hidden issues because you weren't included in school sports games. Not everything a South African does represents the country as a whole. Proudly South African!
SPRINGBOK FAN7/7/2009 8:29 AM
@Burgiesburnin. Sounds more like you're the one with the massive chip (no boulder!) on your shoulder. Sour grapes mate! Ha ha ha ha. Get over yourself and save your psychological speeches for your children. It's better off for the world that way. Geez...what a drama queen!!!
NeilA @ burgiesburnin7/7/2009 8:25 AM
the old saying goes ' cut your nose to spite your face' and you, whoever you are must realize that world rugby needs the springboks no matter how much you may hate them for winning world cups and beating your pathetic lions teams, the fact remains without the springboks world rugby would become just another one of your lame sports, like maybe crochet or polo, the fact of the matter is your little girl british teams cant handle the physical stuff, and the fact of the matter is we have physicallity and talent in abundance and arseholes like you just cant handle it!!!
kanister7/7/2009 8:12 AM
I think the armbands were great. And the fact that the entire Springbok squd wore them was super. It's about time we, as Sprinboks, stand up for ourselves against harsher treatments/penalties shown towards us compared to other teams. What about the shoulder charge on Fourie Du Preez in the first test in Durban? No use of the arms there! And whether right or wrong, there is something special in the setup if the entire team stand together to support their fellow team mate, their brother. Boks forever!
John7/7/2009 8:08 AM
@Burgiesburnin or whatever: First you litter our stadiums with your all red presence, now you want to tell us what we can or cannot do. Wake up, colonialism is dead. We don't want you here - please leave and take your pathetic rule bound traditions with you.
dumkofp7/7/2009 8:08 AM
this is what happens when politics get involved............it goes downhill in all departments, sport, police force, education, hospitals, to many to mention, well done!
MH7/7/2009 8:05 AM
Burgiesburnin....."IT WAS AGAINST THE RULES AND SPIRIT OF RUGBY" you clearly cannot know the game if you make a comment like this. As BOTH teams stipulated after the ban was given, there was at least 20 incidents of an identical nature by BOTH teams during the game. Why then does the IRB judiciary those to punish only 1 person, who firstly was bound and was within his right to clean out the opposing player at the ruck. That Adam Jones got injured in the process is very unfortunate but the was no malice intended in the challenge. Why dont you stick to a girls sport like football!!
Jeff Aucamp7/7/2009 8:05 AM
@burgiesburnin.Your unfounded allegations that the whole world is against us smacks of ignorance.Yours.A few remarks made by old has beens to a equally gullible British tabloid press can hardly be considered as a yardstick for international opinion.That there is a serious lack of brains trust in a lot of the IRB's functioning is clear for anybody but an idiot to see.Like it or not,to suggest that world rugby does not need the world champions is like saying F1 has no need for Mcclaren or Ferrari.
cracker7/7/2009 8:05 AM
I see the arm bands as a peaceful demonstration of something they believe in (or didn't agree with). I guess the IRB doesn't believe in freedom of speech or the right to demonstrate peacefully which is usually the basic rights of democratic countries.
Roy7/7/2009 7:45 AM
It just goes to show that South African players get targeted like no other. Bryan Habana almost gets his head taken off in a supper 14 game and nothing comes from it and Bakkies gets 2 weeks for playing the game of rugby, pathetic. The game is becoming pathetic in the way certain incidents are being handled.
Burgiesburnin7/7/2009 7:27 AM
Its about time the South African team and supporters got sorted out once and for all. They have a huge chip on the shoulder and any aspect of the game which does not suit them through lack of decipline and the blatant disregard of the rules they turn it round to saitify the culture of entitelment thirst that they have. The world is not against you, please beleive me but you cant carry on making up and changing rules to suit yourselfes. The protest was condemned by most people but now that your team has been charged, you think that the world is against you and its a personal vendeta. Grow up the lot of you, watch my lips, IT WAS AGAINST THE RULES AND SPIRIT OF RUGBY. Why oh why do you suppose for one minute that the rules do not apply to you. You will recall that its because you think the rules are for everyone else and you think that you can just do as you wish that you are in the situation to start with. This world champion status that you have in name only is watered down and compromised every time one of you idiots open your mouths. Its a disgrace that "the world champions" should behave this way. Grow up, if you carry on like this, world rugby does not need or want you.
Johan7/7/2009 7:18 AM
They should ban PdV for a year. That should solve all our problems.
Martin7/7/2009 6:53 AM
Where the hell are you guys when COSATU and all their moron supporters toytoy at a drop of a hat
Tyrone7/7/2009 6:44 AM
Oh for crying out loud... We are the world champions! How can we allow this to happen? PDV must go... Now. He's brought dismay and confusion in the team with those two-cent peanut gallery comments, and just look what it's doing to us. I feel sorry fro John Smit. Such a fine captain is under akward pressure with a coach like that.
scipio7/7/2009 6:36 AM
A very just cause, too long have south africans been at the recieving end of a lot of injustice. What the heck, Some action will be taken against us with a lot of critisism but we got a message across.
Drakkar7/7/2009 4:03 AM
Think what you like aout this saga, but I am glad that this has really attracted thepublic attention it has. For way too long there has been a separate rule for SA players in general and Boks in particular. I hope the powers that be in SARU will finally show somwe backbone in highlighting these blatant inconsistencies and finally stand up for a system that treats our players as it does everyone else. The Simon Shaw incident just once again highlights the farcical nature of this system and the clowns that run it.
Willem7/6/2009 11:50 PM
Die spelers is die hoofrolspelers in die rugby arena en so "by the way" betaal hulle die die administrateurs en skeidsregters se salarisse en hulle kry geen reg tot volvoering van regverdigheid nie???? Die analfabete wat so uitvaar teen die spelers sal verseker dit gelate aanvaar as hulle onregverdig tronk toe gestuur word..... Die IRB dink hulle is verhewe bo die alles maar is besig om die spel te vernietig met swak beslissings en drakoniese bestuurstyl. Ek stem vir dit wat die Bokke gedoen het!!!!!
John7/6/2009 11:43 PM
Who really cares about the IRB's opinion? All these holier than thou comments about so-called childish behaviour are nauseating, to say the least -get off your high horses and get real, or emigrate. It's high time the players (spectators should follow suit) make a visible stand against biased and inconsistent decisions by referees and tribunals alike.
Peter7/6/2009 11:02 PM
I, too, with most rugby fans, feel that Bakkies Botha was unfairly treated in terms of how players enter rucks in the modern game. However, life is not and never will be fair to all at all times. I am sure Shaw feels that he did not knee du Preez on purpose and feels hard done by. If everyone who feels aggrieved feels free to protest publically every time an "injustice" occurs, chaos would ensue. There are proper channels to pursue otherwise the world would be awash with vigilantes, or worse, people with hidden agendas out to cause mischief. There is a perception among many of us that we are being victimised all the time. Sometimes I wonder if our own attitude, which often appears to be rather arrogant to outsiders, does not bring this about.
Mike7/6/2009 10:31 PM
This was an attempt by the IRB and the pom media to sabotage the Boks so that the Lions at least stood a chance at saving face. After all, a complete white wash would have been an absolute disgrace. Ironically enough, the British media are usually the first to advocate freedom of expression and whinge or cry foul when people are prevented from exercising their democratic right to protest. The Boks are the world champions - I'd say that gives them the right to protest against what they feel is unfair treatment by the IRB.
David7/6/2009 10:05 PM
So n geploeter deur hoogs betaalde mense - fools who rush in where angels fear to tread. Die fokus was op alles behalwe wen rugby. En ja, hoogmoed kom tot n val.
Mike7/6/2009 9:55 PM
Not the type of behaviour you would expect from World Champions. It's oh so childish - PdV and team should be made to wear tutu's for the Tri- Nations series as punishment.
IAN7/6/2009 9:33 PM
players and managers should be cited rules are rules what are they showing to up & coming players because we are world champs we can do what we like its like a father telling his son its ok to drink & drive im no1 world boxing champ we are here to set examples for those to follow lost all respect for S A rugby there are channels to follow YOU ARE THE PRIDE OF OUR NATION YOU SHOULD BE GROWN UP BY NOW
IAN7/6/2009 9:17 PM
players and managers should be cited rules are rules what are they showing to up & coming players because we are world champs we can do what we like its like a father telling his son its ok to drink & drive im no1 world boxing champ we are here to set examples for those to follow lost all respect for S A rugby there are channels to follow
Rob7/6/2009 9:03 PM
forget the legalities. forget the IRB. What the players did to the Springbok jersey was a total lack of respect. Adorning it with horrendous hand scribbled bands was a total disregard for the jersey they all claim to hold in such esteem. Would you ever see an All Black deface his jersey in such a manner. I think not!
Mare Iridium7/6/2009 8:56 PM
The Boks should have gone through the proper channels but having said that it is time for the IRB to get their act together and retrain all referees and match officials. The inconsistancy has continued to get worse and the erratic citing of some players while others get away with anything was probably the last straw as far as Smit and his team were concerned. As usual PDV showed that he is not capable of leading from the front - he should have found a better way for the team to vent their grievances instead of being overly dramatic and giving everybody (especially the overseas media and players) something else to shout about. Unless this was done purposely in order to divert attention for his bizarre team selections, from the substitutions in the first test, the bringing on of appropriate players at such a late stage in the 2nd and the inexplicable choices he made in the 3rd that humiliated us all, particularly the guys who were on the field being outplayed by the Lions.
Jacques Viljoen7/6/2009 8:52 PM
THE MIGHTY IRB DOES NOT EVEN [DARE TO SHOW] AN E-MAIL ADDRESS ON THEIR WEBSITE ( http://www.irb.com/contact.html ) Why? Scared of criticism? "Open and transparent" does not apply to them? Get your refs to be consistent (and your disciplinary committees) and all this shame on the game will be avoided!
CP7/6/2009 8:50 PM
"The IRB takes the view that such an act demonstrates a clear disregard of the disciplinary process" - not as much disregard as disagree, since Bakkies did not play! "And does so in a manner which brings, or has the potential to bring, the Game into disrepute." Well that's debatable as to who is bringing the game into disrepute. MANY HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT THIS CITING AND THAT WITH OUT CHANGE! IS THIS NOT CONSTANTLY BRING THE GAME INTO DISREPUTE?? Let's see - Smit being dropped on his head by an All Black - 1 game suspension, ends victim's season = disrepute! BOD getting dropped on his head by All Black captain and one other - no suspension, ends victim's season = disrepute. Both victims were captains of their respective teams and no doubt it influenced the outcomes of those series. If you do not think there is something wrong with the autonomous, closed IRB and their judicial process there is seriously something wrong with you. There are 2 very good examples of good outcomes following a revolution, in each case they tried negotiation first; USA over England and France over their crown. This is just a warning of things to come if the process is not improved in a hurry!
Cire7/6/2009 8:47 PM
What a puerile thing for SA rugby to do. Have we got any toys left in our pram?
Chris7/6/2009 8:43 PM
The IRB need to have a serious look at the biased refs and very floored citing system and judicial panels. The IRB suffers from institutional racism against South African players and should themselves be taken to court over this! Whomever we play we get the short end of the stick and I am sick of it. Well done to all the players - I salute you for your stance. I for one will wear a white arm band on my supporter jersey from now on stating "no to IRB racism" and encourage all SAFAs to do the same whenever we put on the green and gold Springbok supporter top.
Paul7/6/2009 8:27 PM
The world view of SA right now is that it is some kind of "rogue rugby state". First SA says that eye gouging is really not that bad. If you don't like it, go into ballet! That has forced the IRB to investigate eye gouging again. Then SA says the IRB are all idiots and Bakkies, obviously a saint if you look at his previous behaviour, was wrongly charged. So, South Africa is what? Trying to take over the IRB and change the rules? South Africa wants to host the World Cup in 2015. Sorry for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You just blew it! Engage the brain before operating the mouth works in Europe and OZ, NZ, Argy etc. Learn!
Jacques Viljoen7/6/2009 8:26 PM
We should have the integrity and guts to stand what we believe in. Promote local rugby, like the Currie Cup, make it stronger and spend the money HERE. Let's see what the IRR will do if we, the current World Champs, decide to stick to our guns. I am the first to admit our rugby (to) will be affected, but NO ONE COUNTRY will ever be able to be true world champs without SA around. And they know it. I dare to say that the so-called Lions, which can not be properly disciplined (who do they punish - the players' countries? - instead of the Lions? - because of the obvious logistics) caused more harm to the game than any other single factor this year, INCLUDING the French clown in NZ. Shaw could have ended Du Preez's career and he gets two weeks? Consistency? Fair? Sent your referees on training courses to PREVENT this circus!
cij7/6/2009 8:22 PM
Wat gaan aan met ons unie.Dit is hoogtyd dat hulle die slapgat los. Hoekom maak hulle nie klagtes oop teen die skeidregters oop wat ons, en net ons spelers te na kom.Dit is altyd een van die Bokke wat uitgesonder word. Ek stem saam met Pieter ,as jy nie saam met manne kan speel gaan speel tennis.Hier staan ons vir die eerste keer saam deer n band te toon, en wie hardloop weg met n ding???? STAAN SAAM GO BOKKE!!!!!
Molefe7/6/2009 8:15 PM
Oh FFS! They appealed a bad decision by the IRB officials, and the appeal was denied. What do you do then? Appeal an appeal? Just shut up and take every bad decision from the dysfunctional IRB? Bugger that I say! If there was ANY consistency from the IRB then several players would have been cited after Saturdays game for the same offence as what Bakkies was charged with! As long as there are incompetent citing commissions and double standards, then there WILL be protest. Wake up and smell the roses IRB!
Bugger7/6/2009 8:15 PM
I am a fanatical Sharks and Bok supporter,and PdV leaves a lot to be desired,but you do realize that this protest action was,in fact,orchestrated by John Smit and Victor Matfield,and NOT PdV?Time to get your facts straight boys....However,that being said,it is a pity that we,as South African supporters and players,feel we are being hard done by when it comes to the implications of citings.We have to remember something though,teams do not cite each other.There is a citing commissioner,for the Super 14,appointed by SANZAR,for test matches,appointed by the IRB (so a mechanism of their own downfall really!) who sit and watch the matches,and pinpoint any suspect foul play,during the course of a match.Based on the evidence they see,they then choose to cite individuals,who then appear before a judiciary.The IRB though,are as toothless as the ICC when it actually comes to governing the game.If they had any backbone,serious and serial offenders would receive harsher bans,um,ok,so Schalk would probably be a wine farmer by now based on the IRB's evidence,and they would work more effectively to stamp out the nasty bits.However,the one thing we do overlook time and time again,is that rugby IS a contact sport,a tough one at that,which encourages testosterone levels to go through the roof,and things do get heated,as was evidenced in Saturday's game with Frans Steyn and Heinrich Brussouw.My feeling is that the powers that be are trying to minimize the contact,in a contact sport.That would be like asking ice hockey players not to chase the puck,or cricketers not to cover driver.The sport is of such a nature that it will be prone to players being tough,and for incidents to happen.Example,in 1988,the All Blacks went on a tour of France and the British Isles.In the test against France,All Black captain Buck Shelford said it was the toughest match he had ever played in,and he lost a testicle in that game,so not really a sport for softies is it?I agree with stamping out the dirty play,but physicality is going to last forever,unless they all wear helmets and big pads and call themselves the South African Coelacanth's or something else stupid to imitate the Grid Iron boys...
Brian7/6/2009 8:04 PM
The protest was childish, inappropriate and lacked thought. Div must be kept away from microphones...he has no idea how to conduct himself and speak with sense. I agree with the earlier comment that he is building a team that thinks it can win with brawn and no brains. We will come unstuck with thinking teams in the Tri nations and I wouldnt be surprised if we end up with the wooden spoon in that tournament!
Martin7/6/2009 8:04 PM
Go Bokke. It is time we standup for ourself.
Chris7/6/2009 7:55 PM
I don't agree with all the above comments for the following reasons: Yes, the IRB is the governing body of rugby and yes they have the final say. BUT and this is a BIG but, what you need from a governing body in any sport, for that matter, is consistency in applying the rules of the game so that you can treat everybody fair. I don't feel that our players are treated the same as other players, I can name loads of incidents in the Super 14 for instance where our players got suspended or cited for fairly minor incidents and some other players got away with murder. The only thing we all want is consistency and fairness in applying and enforcement of the rules by EVERYBODY.One can clearly see that there is a huge difference in interpretation of the rules between Northern and Southern Hemisphere, that is from player, referees and even supporters points of view. Strangely enough you don't get that with sports like golf, tennis or cricket? The rules have very clear guidelines what is acceptable and what is not. Obviously I realize that rugby doesn't fall into the same category as the above sports but we should maybe take some hints from other sports to improve rugby,shouldn't we? If the IRB is not doing their job properly or we don't agree with what they doing, then should we just sit by and do nothing about the situation? Without the players and the viewers you have NOTHING Mr. IRB!!! Maybe it's time to start listening to what the very people who are responsible for our viewing pleasure every Saturday, has to say. I hope the IRB don't try to pull a Bernie & Max move, because they CAN actually be replaced. The other thing that upsets me a bit is that referees only get a slap on the wrist from their referee pals when they mess up, but they are in a very well paid profession! If they mess up, they should be fined or banned or suspended, just like the players! And can we do that to the Sport Administrators that's riding along on the Gravy train as well! Who is checking up on them??? Afterall, it is the effort of those same players week in and week out that put the money in your pocket Mr Ref and Mr Rugby Administrator! Without them and without this great game you would probably be sitting in a boring job that pays you a crap salary! I think it's great that the players stand up for what they believe in and I don't see how wearing an armband can bring the game in disrepute! I fully and unconditionally support EVERY rugby player out there who's putting their bodies on the line every week for our entertainment and enjoyment! That's enough for now!
Fed-Up7/6/2009 7:54 PM
I applaud the players for taking a stand - this is long overdue !! I pay money to watch a good game of rugby being played, and in my opinion, the players, followed by the refs, coaches, etc are the most important people on the field - not the administrators, who only have one job and that is to ensure that a good game of rugby is produced. However, somehow, they seem to feel that the game revolves around them. Let's face it, these clowns have totally stuffed up the rules, turning the game into a stop-start affair by over complicating everything. As far as the citing / judicial process is concerned – well, that is just a joke. In the same way as all the players ask is for the ref to be consistent, I ask, with tears in my eyes, how difficult can it be for citing / sentencing to be consistent ? There is a huge amount of inconsistency in the entire process, especially the sentencing. And rightly or wrongly, the perception is there that the SA players suck the hind tit as far as ref + citing decisions are concerned. The IRB has done nothing to manage that perception. At the very least, they should have made an effort in convincing us that this is not the case. However, they don't give a cr@p because they are a bunch of old farts with stiff upper lips who are totally out of touch with the modern game. But despite these injustices, despite our own internal wrangles, despite shooting ourselves in the foot occasionally ... SA rugby is and will continue to be strong. Currently SA hold the RWC, Sevens and S14 crowns ... and we have just clinched a series win against the Lions !! So, IRB, do your best off the field ... it won’t work - SA rugby will endure and we will continue kicking your northern hemisphere butts in all aspects of rugby.
asher7/6/2009 7:52 PM
What's wrong with nonviolent protest? If the boks feel Bakkies was hard done by, and the rules were inconsistently applied (even after appeal) then what should they do? If the IRB arent big enough to admit their mistakes, they shouldnt expect the Springboks to maintain a higher level of conduct than what they use for themselves. All the players were really saying is that they strongly disagree with the ruling. Maybe bad optics, but really good for team solidarity and morale, as any decent coach knows.
bokkedee7/6/2009 7:49 PM
can i please ask, what punishment can they give the boks? like what can they do to them? im just wondering cos while i think bakkies ban was unfair, i would be devastated if the whole team was banned or something..
Peter7/6/2009 7:45 PM
An extremely silly and childish thing to do.
fern7/6/2009 7:43 PM
Surprise surprise.. The IRB just another name for the for the english RFU with a few foreigners thrown in.
AJ7/6/2009 7:43 PM
I stand by the Bokke 100% and hope they don't back down from a stand I feel has merit. Its time that the top rugby administrators realise that they cannot change the game to what fits the particular management of the time. Think about the failed ELV experiment and how this degraded the game into aerial ping-pong games. There was nothing wrong with Bakkies clearing the ruck and I respect the Boks more for taking the stand than the IRB now trying to prove a point
Player237/6/2009 7:41 PM
It was their Human Right (something forgotten by some in this so called New South Africa) to protest such a decision and in a peacefull manner too at least they didn't go on strike, an armband (masking tape mind you - recession). If the IRB call themselves professional why are they taking such a "childish" protest seriously...Barring others the PLAYERS once again showed us they are not going to moved divided or intimidated by ANYONE...To the IRB what are you going to do? Suspend the WORLD CHAMPIONS? Fine us...oh yes thats right we going through a recession...you need the money. And to SARFU it is in the best interest of South Africa its citizens and its GREAT WORLD CHAMPION RUGBY TEAM THAT YOU APPOINT A TEAM SPOKESPERSON I AM AVAILABLE..clearly the coach is appointed on his abilities to prepare and guide the players and not public speaking....
Fanie7/6/2009 7:36 PM
With the action taken, the cages of the Referees and Judicial bodies was rattled. As a person involved in Rugby, the players and administrators has to accept poor decisions by referees and judicial bodies without any recourse. These decisions can mean a loss of income and pride to the team that is the victim. Everybody in rugby must abide by the rules of good conduct, not brining the game in disrepute, but what happens to the persons responsible for poor decisions, they also bring the game into disrepute.
jonno7/6/2009 7:32 PM
the irb are a load of wet blanket old dinasoric moaners
Gary7/6/2009 7:30 PM
Very disappoited in the Boks. This is totally unprofessional. They should all appear before a disciplinary committee because this is what would have happened in any corporate company...Bokke wake up and be professional. Please go for some writing and neatness skills before you scribble on a band. The big band on Matfields forehead looked ridiculous......Bokke go out there and play rugby...thats what you are paid to do. Let management sought out issues that you are not happy with.
rambani7/6/2009 7:23 PM
I think this is a small issue really. The boks should be handed a minor discplinary punishment to prevent other teams from repeating the samilar act. hey Bruce its amazing how whhen things go wrogn Div is the one to blame. By the way he is not even in charge of the time senior players are. So why no heap the blame on them.
DJ7/6/2009 7:23 PM
If the only way to get the IRB to ensure that the rules of the game are applied fairly and look at the inconsistent application of their rules is a show of solidarity, then the Bokke have achieved this whatever the outcome of the IRB charges against the SARB may be. At the end of the day who gets results whenit comes to taking a stand... the soft talkers or the protestors. Anyone living in SA will know the answer to that. Yes sport is not politics but sometimes politics becomes sport. Get the rules right IRB and there wouldn't be any reason for a protest.
Dawie7/6/2009 7:20 PM
Childish and disgraceful behaviour. They do not own the Sprongbok jersey and have no right to use it for whatever means. What next ... pay demands wriiten on masking tape. The greats of the past would never have done this ...too much respect for the jersey. Hope John and Div face a ban for a few weeks
Ashamed7/6/2009 7:20 PM
Yet another display of typical PdV poor judgment. How long do we still have to tolerate this childish behaviour?
Kotie7/6/2009 7:15 PM
How pathetic and unprofessional. And what poor judgement and leadership from Bok management. Hang your heads in shame boys, your supporters do!!!!!
Dave7/6/2009 7:13 PM
I agree with the protest. I am tired of watching poor decisions from the IRB. They should be operating at a high standard as the governing body for one of the biggest sporrts in the world. Their reaction of not dealing with the issue shows their bad attitude. They choose disciplinary action rather than engangement. Surely they are there to serve the sport, ie: the people who play it and who watch it? Progress is not made by the reasonable man.
Dok17/6/2009 7:10 PM
The time has come for the real Bok supporters, PLAYER 23, to stand up and say we support all our teams. Who needs enemies when you have administrators like SARFU who obviously is not a supporter of the Bok team! United we stand, divided we fall! Don't know why they are there as they obviously is to pap broekig to defend the SPRINGBOK team! As player 23 we need to stand up and say NO MORE! No more targeting our national teams, no more administrators not standing up for us, no more letting our players stand alone. As a Springbok supporter I support the wearing of the white arm bands. In fact, the next arm band should say TAKE THAT IRB! If we allow administrators like Johan and the IRB to walk all over the Boks and belittle them, we are nothing better then they are. SO RISE UP PLAYER 23, AND BE A TRUE BOK SUPPORTER. RISE UP PLAYER 23 AND SAY MY BLOOD IS TRULY GREEN. RISE UP, FOR OUR BOYS WOULD ASK NOTHING LESS!
Dave7/6/2009 7:07 PM
Say to the IRB what O'Driscoll said to the Springboks: "Bring it on!" And let's see how the cookie crumbles.
ian7/6/2009 7:07 PM
I was shocked to see the blatant disregard for a legal decision, regardless of whether you agree with the decision or not. The coach should not allign himself with actions of this nature as he is the representative of the IRB and the very rules that give him his job. The emphasis was not on the game it was on some misguided notion of self importance. Our teams peformance and focus was reflected in the score. Shame on De Villiers!!! He is a role model and his comments after the game leave much to be desired.
zelt7/6/2009 7:05 PM
I have no problem with armband, but I want SARU to explain to me why it allowed its team management not to play the strongest possible team in the final test - I take this as an insult to the rugby paying public whom had to spend thousands of Rands on themselves and their families to watch the Boks put up such a BAD performance againsts the Lions.I will be writing to SARU to demand a refund for both my and my family's Flight and Match Tickets.
BALLS7/6/2009 7:05 PM
Whilst I agree that the Boks may have been wrong with the protest, the IRB should be investigating the fact that ref's don't blow consistently ! Look at the high tackles/stiff arms on the Boks and nothing is said - we should cite more players, but we don't we play the game HARD and get on with it !.
Liam7/6/2009 7:04 PM
THE SPRINGBOKS WANT THE IRB TO HAVE AN URGENT AND SERIOUS RELOOK AT LAW 10.4 (j)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - that is the solution you old IRB farts!!. The IRB appears to be more in a competition with that silly round ball game's governing body, FIFA, to see who can be the most ''high-and-mighty''!!. The IRB is missing the point. It will be very, very interesting to see what SA Rugby will say and do about this, especially since they gladly accepted all the (unfair) citings in the Super 14 and B & I Lions tour with an attitude of ''Tigers Don't Cry'' - well, they better start crying!!.
Chris S7/6/2009 7:03 PM
Elke jaar dieselfde storie: een of ander S A Rugby bestuur drama, skandaal of ongure verskille. Die wereld lag vir ons. Soveel sinnelose energie deur soveel hoogs betaalde amptenare!! Wens eerder sekere ministeries wil met mag inklim by Munisipale besture en deurdring tot by die wortels van alle kwaad.
grant duT7/6/2009 7:01 PM
yes we were shortchanged, but this was a very silly way to go about things
DAVEY7/6/2009 6:59 PM
Sadly,they deserve the charge,for a childish and petulant protest--but why did the inept Bok management permit it?
AFRICAINE7/6/2009 6:57 PM
Its time to grow up "bokke" - cut out the nonsense and childishness. You copped it this week with the new team and nearly lost it last week with the established team - trying to play with brawn and not brain and now in the TriNations you are up against 2 teams who play with "kop" - Julle gaan julle gat sien ! Focus !!!
Lankmoedige Neelsie7/6/2009 6:55 PM
I feel for Bakkies Botha and the Springboks BUT we cannot afford a situation where the players openly show dissent with a decision of the disciplinary bodies of appeal in sport. This is the forerunner of anarchy that will destroy the very basis upon which sports are built: rules. The Rule of Law means that we shall not only abide the Rules but also the decisions of those burdened with the task of enforcing those Rules. Unless, of course, we feel that the system has deserted us to such an extent that we do not want that system anymore. But then we must also be ready to substitute another, better, system for the present one. As ons nog maar gewen het, maar nou't ons ons name dubbeld gat gemaak.
Bruce7/6/2009 6:49 PM
Absolutely fantastic that Div and Bakkies team-mates had the balls to wear their feelings on their sleeves....BUT..... Div as coach should have realised the legal aspect to their actions and prevented it.And no,this comment is NOT made because Div is not one of the white minority,but ONLY based on the fact that he as COACH...(white green pink black or brown)...should have known better...
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