Rugby

Manuel backs Bok coach

2009-07-07 09:11
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Peter de Villiers (Gallo)

Johannesburg - Springbok coach Peter de Villiers received support from an unexpected yet impeccable source on Tuesday - National Planning Minister Trevor Manuel.

In a letter to Business Day editor Peter Bruce, Manuel took him on for a comment that De Villiers "just isn't up to the job".

The Springboks lost dismally to the Lions in the third and final Test on Saturday, but, as Manuel pointed out, still won the series 2-1.

"What matters in sport is the result. Surely what matters in respect of the Springbok coach in this instance is that, unlike so many of his predecessors, he scored a series against the British and Irish Lions?

"Perhaps more importantly, I would invite the editor, who's not the sports writer, to compare De Villiers's results with that of his predecessors and only then arrive at a studied conclusion about his fitness for the job," wrote Manuel, the former finance minister.

He said South Africans arrived too easily at conclusions without "any reference to facts or statistics".

Manuel said he was "bitterly misunderstood on the subject of recession because I argued then, as I would even about rugby, that we should let the numbers speak", in an apparent reference to a past statement that South Africa was not technically in a recession.

Manuel made that statement at a stage when, according to statistics, South Africa was not a recession, but several economists believed otherwise.

"My pleading is that the editor of Business Day should let the numbers speak even as he writes his column late on a Sunday afternoon," said Manuel.

 

Your Comments

SPRINGBOK FAN7/8/2009 11:47 AM
@colin. You are not a real South African for defending a racist and inept coach. Your double standards makes no sense. I pity people like you who hide behind incompetence. AGAIN look at his record against Aus and NZ and you will see he is a worse and not better coach than the previous one. Why tolerate failure! And AGAIN he is NOT the one coaching teh Boks, his assistants are !!!
colin7/8/2009 10:28 AM
@SPRINGBOK FAN - PDV only have 6 TN3 games and JW had 18 - lets look at this stats at the end on the season - PDV to date have a 68% win ratio and JW end with a 67% win ratio - JW away win ratio was only 33% whereas PDV is currently sitting at 67% - to date PDV have performed to standard and I believe he will surpass all the record set by other coaches - yes he will end his career as one of the best coaches this country has ever had - and in doing that he does not need the support of people like you as real South Africans are behind him - VIVA PDV.
SPRINGBOK FAN7/8/2009 8:56 AM
@ThembalabantuBONKERS. Seeing the Boks have a 39% overall winning ratio (if you include the only draw) in the Tri Nations, then why are we tolerating a meagre 33% by Helium if JW was at 45%? Before JW took over our winning ratio was only 34% and when he left it was 40% (+ GOOD COACH !!!). Even Australia is better than us at 43%. NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!
YammerOmVanTrevSeK@kTeHoor7/8/2009 8:35 AM
First off, Trev Manuel, is on record for saying that the Dalai Lama is a terrorist. So, we now know that he cannot be an impeccable source. Secondly, Jake White's team officially finished playing in the second test against the B&I Lions and P Div's team played the third. Manne, expect serious problems for the TN ahead.
Bliiksem7/8/2009 7:45 AM
Darcco .. nee eks nog hier seun.... is jy nog nie van pappa se pc af nie?? .. hey , nog nie ?
William7/7/2009 10:57 PM
I honestly thought SPORT was supposed to bring the nation together and have fun and drink beer and laugh. PITY PITY PITY that this has now created racial and all sorts of wars. I feel ashamed of being a South African for the black and white people living in it. Rugby players are hooligans and racism is the disease of all times. God help us!
andrew7/7/2009 10:34 PM
When is white everything is oraait when will southern africans wake up and be colour blind and accept the change gracefully. Rugby is non longer white men game, nor coloured nor black but just a game. Leave Pieter alone, if you can handle it, you are most welcome to leave th country.HOU OP MET KLA MET N WITBROOD ONDER DIE ARM.
Thembalabantubonke7/7/2009 10:24 PM
@Springchicken Fan Your use of statistics to back up your argument against PDV is really pathetic. Consider that Jake White had more rounds of TN to better his records i.e. he had an opportunity to play more games. PDV only had 3 games against each of these teams and has managed a 33% record i.e. 2 wins versus 4 loses. Now, compare White's team at the same stage. Also, why not compare the last games of each coaches tensure in terms of opponents? Jake White's team beat England 15-6 in France. PDV's squad beat England in England by 42-6. White's team beat Argentina in the world cup 37-13, whereas PDV's squad beat Argentina 63-9. Last game in South Africa for White's team was a 3 point win for the Springboks. The last Australian man under PDV was a mauling at Ellis Park. Oh, the last match by White's team, in Dunedin was a loss, whereas PDV achieved a win. I notice you used the well known statistical analysis called luck. In 2006 (less than 1 year to the world cup, Hoskins intervened to prevent White from being fired when his team lost to Ireland and England in that ill-fated tour. In 2006, the year before the world cup, White's team had the following record: 5-7 if you exclude the World xv games. If you include those, then White's record was 7-7 which included two home wins against the powers of rugby football from Glasgow. I am sure you also remember the 49-0 walloping the Australians dished out then. Last game in South Africa against New Zealand for both coaches were losses. Now, it would seem to me that statistics in comparable situations suggest that PDV's is doing ok in his initial tenure as White struggle in the middle of his tenure
Darrco7/7/2009 4:59 PM
@bliksem. Gaan Australie toe asseblief..... Dankie bliksem..... Is jy al weg al.... Dankie bliksem... dit is die Nuwe SA.. Dankie
SPRINGBOK FAN7/7/2009 4:39 PM
@colin where do you get off? Go get the real stats and not the fudging as per government official to hide crime!!! Dude do some research!!! Pieter de Villiers record as Springbok coach: Played 16, won 11. He has won 1 and lost 2 games against Australia, won 2 and lost 1 game against British and Irish Lions (LUCKY), won 1 game each against Argentina, England, Scotland and Italy, won 3 games against Wales, won 1 (LUCKY) and lost 2 games against New Zealand. If you compare him with Jake White, he has a 33% wining ratio against Australia and New Zealand vs Jakes 45%. I use the Wallabies and All Blacks as benchmarks as they are the only consistent sides really. PdV is yet to play against Ireland and France, who are pretty tough opponents. Shame, hiding the real stats are you?
Ross7/7/2009 4:10 PM
Why did the Boks play such embarrasing crap on Saturday - was it because Bakkies wasn't on the field? Being new and/or young players is a rubbish excuse because all of them are super series and curry cup hardened players . Forget about the rhetorical crap about Coaches and Govt. Ministers etc - the players must wake up and get out of the rut of always being on defence and having the ball taken away from them like candy from kids even when they have initially won the ball - sis !
Bliiksem7/7/2009 4:00 PM
@Darcco ... ag nee wat Darcco .. glad nie jaloers nie jong . Kan nie help jy's in sy gat opgekruip nie . Hoekom klim jy nie maar af van pappa se pc af en gaan doen jou huiswerk nie hey ?
Koos7/7/2009 3:42 PM
Amazing how we make fun of the way in which Pdivvy talks, although it is amusing, it is not as amusing as the accent of the kaaners... "oh, i like to be weering a green bok jean pant"
Mangaliso7/7/2009 3:41 PM
Come on guys. The Springboks won against the British and Iris Lions. Tha Is an achievment. I Div decided to field his full strength side we would have won the last test as well. You all need to be apreciative of that fact. Even Carel Du plessis could not beat the Lions. div did. That is what will be in the history books. You should be all happy for this win. Not negative.
Larry7/7/2009 2:38 PM
The springboks won because the coach inherited a strong team. This team should have won by a bigger margin. This team IS poorly coached (by ALL coaching staff) If we dont win (comprehensively) the TN3 this year, my point will be vindicated. This is a good springbok time, inspite of the coaching staff.
Jono7/7/2009 2:34 PM
The only reason Manuel support Div is because he's an All Black supporter!
colin7/7/2009 2:30 PM
@ SRINGBOK FAN - JW only had a win ratio of 33% against NZ - but if you black you are automatically expected to be twice as good as your predecessors and peers to attain the same level of respect - so for PDV to be rated at the same level than JW he needs to win all his games - please be fair.
Darrco7/7/2009 2:26 PM
@pietpompies and bliksem. Julle is lekker jaloers op PDV ne. Waarom trek julle nie ook na Australie toe nie. Totsiens. Dit is mos "Afrika". Baie Dankie pietie en bliksem. En moenie weer terug kom na Afrika toe nie. Dankie
SPRINGBOK FAN7/7/2009 2:13 PM
WTF. 11 won 5 lost. Your record is looking pretty crap Helium!!! Only 2 out of 6 wins against Wallabies and All Blacks. Another 2 out of 6 coming up!!! In this country we praise mediocrity like the Police, SABC, ESKOM, Bafana and the ANC, now the virus has infected the Boks as well. Oh well let me just praise my manager for doing nothing!!!
fine7/7/2009 2:09 PM
To all you moaners, ....PdV was given the job to "transform" the Boks, ..and not to coach them... ...and so far he is doing fine....
Young Stunter!!7/7/2009 1:59 PM
Well look where we find ourselves again! I guess according to the white community, a black person cannot do anything let alone coach a rugby team.The issue at question is PdV's ability to lead the Bokke! to success,NOT HIS RACE!!! I don't get why white people ALWAYS cry foul about black people 'overplaying' the race card when the first comment to be made on this article had racist connotations written all over it.But what I fully understand is the inability of white people to recognise that BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS.
Eltin7/7/2009 1:47 PM
Winning the series 2-1 was great, white-washing the brits would have been better.The brits have gone back to there mud-island and the Bokke need to focus on the Ozi threat! The tri-nations will show just how good we really are.
DP7/7/2009 1:37 PM
You guys are priceless. Giving the assistant coaches the credit is like saying a company is successful because of the efforts of the managers and staff, not the MD. Like all good leaders, Div selected his assistant coaches and captain. He surrounded himself with competent people like a good leader would do. To not give him credit for a successfull bok team is stupid and racist.(yes it is..at least be honest with yourselfs you hypocrites)
Bliiksem7/7/2009 1:28 PM
@DARCCO & Lucille Olivier ... go climb a tree plaese (together) .. and stay there !
me27/7/2009 12:49 PM
@piet pompies.and all his doom prophet friends on this blog..You sound a like a blou bul..Can you smell that bol of *** you are talking ? First you cry babies cried that Morne, Zane and Brussow etc. should be selected, now its the coach's fault that thsy play shit.You guys are a bunch of pathetic hypocrits, and to suggest its because of Jake White and the current assistant coaches that the boks win..Its so pathetic...Go jump off the highest mountain man .its all i can say..Maybe Div must select a all black team, then you guys will be happy..bunch of losers !!..Go Bokke and Div.
RJ7/7/2009 12:47 PM
Well done Bokke! A historic win over the Lions team! Sure there were some problems, but we need those to learn from. Tri-Nations are nearing and the last performance gave us some pointers - of what to do and certainly, of what not to do... And Guys (from all sides) - maybe it is time to stop worrying about and mentioning person's race - let us just be John, Pieter and Sipho... and let's all enjoy our victories! Viva Bokke!
bokbevo*7/7/2009 12:41 PM
Well said Trevor, unfortunatly many white people in our country cannot live with the fact that black people can do the job and do it well! Do us all a favour and stop whinging and get on with it or move to another continent please...
Andre7/7/2009 12:38 PM
Hi Our problem is that everytime some one is criticised, race comes into it. Can't we get over the race issue, please I'm over it. Theres no question that just on straight evaluation of the facts, Peter is not a better coach then the Lions coach. By the way I rate Warren Gatland as better coach than both Dick and Gary. Proudly SA but with no racist reaction everytime someone disagrees with me. I forget what colour I am
Allan7/7/2009 12:38 PM
"Ricardo" i am white and i was born in South Africa, so was my dad and his dad and his dad..........so u leave u racist pig! As for "Sipho" when a company fails the CEO get the blame not the people under him u racist twat!! peter de Villiers is doing a good job, he needs a spokesman though!
ebens7/7/2009 12:33 PM
The feeling is mutual Paul. Finaly you have the guts to say what your this Div hating is all about. To quote you "PdV has to understand that he is in a territory that does not belong to people of his kind." it took you a long time to realy say whats on your mind, but not directly, you can elaborate if you have the guts. Div is saying whats on his mind in public , you hide behind a blog. Thats is why i respect him and not your type.
ebens7/7/2009 12:32 PM
The feeling is mutual Paul. Finaly you have the guts to say what your this Div hating is all about. To quote you "PdV has to understand that he is in a territory that does not belong to people of his kind." it took you a long time to realy say whats on your mind, but not directly, you can elaborate if you have the guts. Div is saying whats on his mind in public , you hide behind a blog. Thats is why i respect him and not your type.
Joe7/7/2009 12:14 PM
its really sad how racist people still are in this country.
Proudly African7/7/2009 12:09 PM
You must be really missing pre 1994 hey. Guess what, never and never again shall this country be ruled by racists. It was a better country for Afrikaaner and not for blacks. So go hang, Trevor and Peter are South Africans who are doing this country proud and you bloody Afrikaaner don't like that!
Kuppy7/7/2009 12:05 PM
Oh!........Bambi it was just a matter of time for you to defend the indefendable where do you come from with your put on velvet voice. First of all you have never come out to say you are a springbok supporter so typical amongst you anc to try turn this into a racial issue. Anyway there is nothing further to comment about most entries have stated everything, we all know why Bambi made those comments.
Johan J7/7/2009 11:34 AM
Trevor is as blind as the rest of the ANC. Let's just look how the ANC had downgraded a beautiful country since 1994 over time. Only a true Mampara like Div and Trevor can think they are gaining momentum for the better. Wake up boys, the train in going in the wrong direction. One can bet money on it that when it is in a total mess, Div/Trevor will find someone else to blame!
fielies7/7/2009 11:33 AM
Come guys leave the coach alone, if he does not preform then get rid of him like all the previous coaches before him. Do bring any colour or any other comments, PdV is a south african and was appointed by a board, they must decide.
W VS L7/7/2009 11:31 AM
WINNING VS LOOSING ...... WHILST WE WINNING .. ALL IS GOOD ,ANYTHING ELSE AND IT BECOMES A MONEY MAKING BUSINESS FOR THE MEDIA - AND PEOPLE GO FOR EACH OTHERS THROATS .... what a crazy world we live in :):):):):)
Rugbyforever7/7/2009 11:31 AM
I think that comparisons between Jake White's record and that of Peter de Villiers are misleading. It is perfectly true that Jake White suffered some heavy defeats on the road to winning the World Cup. However, when White took over as coach, SA rugby was a basket case and it took ages to build a competitive team virtually from scratch. Peter de Villiers, on the other hand, inherited a World Cup winning squad (virtually intact) and conspicuous reserve depth. I think that it at least arguable that he has not made the best use of his resources and that the Boks have underperformed, notwithstanding victories in the UK last year and now over the B&I Lions at home. De Villiers's main shortcoming seems to lie in the area of strategy rather than personnel (Ricky Januarie excepted). I cite the absurd game plan employed for most of the 2008 Tri Nations tournament, shades of which were on view last Saturday. The jury is still very much out on Peter de Villiers. If the Springboks perform badly in the 2009 Trinations tournament, I am afraid that he will have to go.
Jody 7/7/2009 11:29 AM
The Springboks did win the series against the BL, well done. There where a few suspensions that did change the composition of the team. The first test could have been lost had the Springboks not had an awesome start, which many people will say could be attributed to the reputation of the team and the players self-belief. The second test was won due to a magnificent penalty kick that was converted by a flyhalf many people would have started the game with, during which period a number of easier kicks were not converted. Did the coach, pick and coach his team to victory, or was home ground advantage a deciding factor in the victory? Only the results of the Tri-Nations will tell the tale. With the results of that series in the record books, hopefully, sanity will prevail and another coach be appointed.
antman7/7/2009 11:28 AM
Hell it's hard out there today. mention how bad the taxi drivers drive and you are a racist, because they are mostly black. moan about the murder and rape of children and you are a racist because of who is guilty. don't even try mention corrupt politicians and think you will be left unbranded as a racist. now you can't even have an opinion about a rugby coach. get over yourselves stop with the 'whites are racist', take responsibility and try move on
Len7/7/2009 11:28 AM
@Lionel Perhaps I need to understand Sports, better. Are you suggesting that results do not matter, it is rather how you play that matters? So, scoring goals does not matter, you can simply run around without scoring goals. Why does anyone bother scoring tries if they mean little? I really cannot believe this claptrap on these forums. I am liking SA rugby less with these type of stupid comments from people who know nothing of the game, except their bigotry
Ricardo7/7/2009 11:28 AM
I'M SO SICK OF THIS SUBJECT why the hell can't you white people accept that you are in AFRICA you came here Africa did not come to you, support the damm South African sports teams if you can't shut up or get out. I can bet many of you with big mouths will never leave this country because you are still milking it here why wont many of you go back to the UK there is no BEE there its because the grass is not greener isnt it. So keep the blood pressure down and be a REAL supporter for a change
Mr Jantjies7/7/2009 11:27 AM
@ Sipho...you are dead right..PDIV is great and Trev is a legend in his own right...he's a mate of mine and if he did bad I would tell him like it is..BUT he's done so well..eveyone wants him to FAIL and it's all those whiteys are there..just like they want our GOVT to fail..
smacker7/7/2009 11:25 AM
to PietPompies - Please stop with ur crap.if it was a white coach, u wouldve probably said - give the guy a chance - PdV produces the results on the field - which makes all us south africans proud - and he hates the media - for exactly wot they doing to him rite now - our former bok coaches -all white - had no complaints - dude - we in 2009 - get with the priogram and to Jawellnofine - Trevor Manuel has been doing his utmost to save money in your pocket so u can go watch ur rugby games - so stop dissing the man cos his backing a coach that is undeniably gona be one of our greatest - GO DIV GO!!!!!
Kiwi7/7/2009 11:21 AM
Lucille Oliver - ooh touchie are we not!!! seems you're like an ostrich. Quite please here tx. I am sure you enjoy the crime!!! perhaps part of it???
lobo7/7/2009 11:17 AM
We shouldn't take our Trevor too seriously, lets not forget that this oke supports the All Blacks.
GKT Insight7/7/2009 11:16 AM
The senior players in the Springboks coach and manage the team. The Springboks won in spite of PDV, not because of him. One could of placed any top ranked coach in there, and the same result if not better would of been obtained. Numbers may not lie Trevor, however, statistics without context is problematic. (Trevor let us not forget that you had a host of experts around you too, who also made you look like you could do or say no wrong!). Trevor you have moved on just in time, perhaps PDV should do the same before the next World Cup.
Jawellnofine7/7/2009 11:16 AM
Ag nou ja toe..first he does'nt know who the Dalia Lhama is and now he back a PDivvie. Lost the plot Trev? This coach has been given a hugely talented team that was exceptionally well coached during Jake White's tenure. Once Smit, Matfield, Botha, Du Preez and De Villiers (the player not the clown) go, watch his win/loose ratio. The player are holding it together not the coach. Oh by the way was this not the Trevor who insisted on wearing an All Black jersey (in Cape Town?) not so long ago. What made you change your mind on who you support?
PietPompies7/7/2009 11:15 AM
Word wakker julle imbisiele! Pieter de Villiers is k@k!
Colin7/7/2009 11:15 AM
My comment when de VILLIERS made all those wholesale changes that almost cost us the first test against the LIONS AND AGAIN IN THE 3RD TEST (WHICH DID COST US THE GAME) , was that de VILLIERS must wake up and smell the mampoer. That All Black supporter Trevor Manuel should be invited to the mampoer party with de Villiers.
troll7/7/2009 11:11 AM
thank you Mr Manuel. The only fact that these people criticize PdV on is the fact that he is not white. Read the stats and you will find that he is a very successful coach and the racists need to accept this. Just look how long Jake White took the get his side to a world class act! Give Div time and he will deliver!
Lionel7/7/2009 11:07 AM
Let's face it, it was not a case of the Sprinboks winning the series 2-1, but a case of the Lions blowing it and losing the series. The Lions played the far better rugby overall. In the last test the Springboks made 10 changes and the Lions 8 changes and the Lions thrashed the Boks. Clever Trevor and Naas the Haas must sing from the same hymn page as they only believe in numbers. As Naas would say and I quote " a win is a win and that's all the counts" in his broken English. They forget that how you win is also important and then their is the dirty play by some of the Bok players. They are bad losers.
Vibe!!!7/7/2009 11:06 AM
Trevor please!!! Why not let the actual figures and analysis on crime and rape speak as well!!! Stop the concoctions!!!
anton7/7/2009 11:00 AM
I am sick and tired of seeing accusations of racism fly thick and fast any time Div or a black player gets criticised. The rugby fans in SA all support the sevens side and its very successful coach, Paul Treu (as do the media). Similarly, the Bok fans all support players like Habana, Beast and JP. Yet these same fans (and media) are branded racist when they criticise Div or any player of colour. I strongly believe that any clearly false accusation of racism should be referred to the Human Rights Commission
Joe7/7/2009 10:59 AM
Well said Trevor , give PDV a chance , he won the series and tried his other players that do not always get a chance in the starting line up and that to me is Forward thinking on the part of the coach . I know we hate to lose games but we have to look at the bigger picture as well . What happens when the our Best players get older or get injured and what if that happens in the early stages of a World cup , are we going to try new players then ? We must take every opportunity to try all our players in competitive games like the one against the British & irish Lions as PDV has done . One piece of advise to the Coach , don`t put too many new players in one game , try a muximum five players at least , otherwise Well Done . To all those that comment because they cannot believe PDV is a winning coach , take the next flight out of Our Beloved Country , South Africa who we maintain belongs to All those who live in it . Cheers
Bokke7/7/2009 10:58 AM
It is our season. Live with it goes with the flow. Feel the feelings of being walked over and treated with disrespect because of you colour. You may jump up and down we've done it for forty years. Stay in the pond . We are serving a living GOD.
SA FAN 7/7/2009 10:57 AM
Imagine if we had had McGeechan as a coach and they had PDV? ! We would have played to our potential and thrashed them 3-0 not scrape through like we did and be outscored in the process.!
CTheB7/7/2009 10:56 AM
I just have to laugh at the notion that the Boks were on a downward trend when Jake White left. Apparently winning the world cup is something that happens on the way down. The problem most racists have is that when white people complain about something a non-white does they can't reconcile this with the fact that they also complain about things that whites do (look at the flak Jake White got early on in his time as coach) and therefore just have to ignore it to justify their racist position.
Piet7/7/2009 10:55 AM
We can win and / or better. The problem with SA Rugby (and the reason why got our a**** hand to us last weekend) team selection. Fair enough, all players(new) should get the chance to play and get the experience, but when a drastic change is made (like last saturday) putting, i think 10 new players on, is an extremely bad idea. Anyway, the people running the show need more training.
Rob7/7/2009 10:53 AM
I was indeed surprised to see that Trevor Manuel, infamous for his unapologetic support of the All Blacks, now finds it necessary to defend PDV. My view is that PDV has proved to be an okay coach with players who will help his cause to appear to be a good coach. I was one of few white people who was pleased when PDV was appointed ahead of the others, but I must admit that I never knew about PDV's inability to communicate rationally or his willingness to play the race card when he is critisized. PDV did win a Lion's series, Trevor Manuel, but then so did several of his predecessors, just not the last one. PDV will ultimately be measured by how we fare in the World Cup, and I hate to be negative but I can't see us doing the business next time round with the way things are. I hope I'm wrong. Let's see how the Tri-nations goes, although I'm sceptical of our chances there too.
Sipho7/7/2009 10:50 AM
I salute Mr Manuel for standing up for PdV.The man is getting critisized uneccesary.Nobody make mention of his assistant coaches and by the way most of the selectors are actually white.Most of the administrators is white.Surely they must also be blamed.Unfortunately it is mostly jealous whites who cannot stand the fact that PdV is actually winning..The media (including the British) is hard at work on planning the downfall of the man.He will come out stronger and whether they believe it or not Div will win this battle against the media(whites)
Paul7/7/2009 10:50 AM
I do not like crying wolf. But hey, if no black rugby player is given credit (including The Beast by the way), then PdV has always been a failure even if he was to win the World Cup. Just for accepting the job: he is a success. PdV has to understand that he is in a territory that does not belong to people of his kind. To suggest that players are actually coaching the team is a joke. These are the same players that PdV had to convince individually to accept the prospect of playing for a black coach. To suggest that Jake White built the team when we are winning and blame PdV when we are loosing is pure hypocrisy. Yes, PdV sometimes shoots his mouth off. It would be interesting to hear again the comments of Jake White when he was comparing Luke Watson to his son fetching a beer for him. Yes, Luke Watson probably shot himself in the foot but every coach in world agrees that Luke Watson is a great rugby player. PdV is cool, leave him alone!!!!!
william @ Darrco+fraud7/7/2009 10:49 AM
do you need tissues boys...let us leave the state of Zim and what you think you can build on your own for another day. FACTS; PDV did everything he can to loose us the first lions test...THE PLAYERS UNDER JOHN WON IT. The second test PDV got selections right..so good on him. The 3rd test we did not loose because of Morne(which had a good game under pressure by the way) we lost it because there was 11 changes and there was no team play or plan.We know that is how PDV likes his game. This is a rugby thing...every rugby personality all over the WORLD thinks zero of PDV..not a color thing...not race...competence is the word you looking for..go look it up
as i see it7/7/2009 10:48 AM
Trevor you dodo. Stick to finance and let the experts decide. If helium insists on fooling around with the team he will not have a job after the tri-nations.
jabu7/7/2009 10:48 AM
All of you who keep on saying PDV inherited players from JW, lack simple logic, all these players are groomed by the provisional sides so if there is anyone who should take credit it is the provisional coaches. Stop this nonsense!
Lucille Oliver7/7/2009 10:43 AM
Dearest Kiwi I did not say he was a genius in media interviews did I. Just mentioned that his track record on the field speaks for itself. If you actually read all the blogs before mine you will realise the race card was played by someone else. Actually living in South Africa and being exposed to the white racism is a whole other ball game then to reading some international papers. Please let me know why you would want a successful coach to step down. Stay where you are we better off without YOU.
tito7/7/2009 10:42 AM
Some the people on this forum is doing exactly what Trevor says and proving him right!!! Julle moet lees en verstaan wat jy lees NORMAN. Go read up on what when a country is in a recession. Jake White won the WC because of Eddie Jones & his two assistants prove me wrong, because he has had a average team going into the WC until Eddie Jones came along.
Tex7/7/2009 10:42 AM
This is the same Clever Trevor who sat next to Alec Irwin and sagely nodded when Smart Alec said "There is nothing wrong with the arms deal" So yeah "There is nothing wrong with the coach"
Haha7/7/2009 10:42 AM
You can't judge a coach on how the team plays with players with experience of beeing coached by a previous great coach. Judge him on what he will do with a team that he himself coached, it will probably turn out like it did on Saturday, he took excellent players in their own right, and didn't give the fantest idea of how to play together, no game-plan, no coaching abality, you don't give ten players a chance to play at once ... against the lions, to loose with the biggest margin against them ever ...
davey7/7/2009 10:41 AM
No problem with Manuel expressing his views. Pity he says nothing about government corruption,crime,Zimbabwe,aids etc--Not exactly fearless in his comments!!!
bob7/7/2009 10:41 AM
dear trevor, if "what matters in sport is the result", then perhaps you should re-focus on saturdays result, equally the worst defeat by a Lions team..this when SA was up 2-0 in a test series!
goyougoodthing7/7/2009 10:40 AM
Politics and sport Trev? Nice one. So the PDI coach now has your backing to create a Currently Disadvantaged Sprinbok Team... and what the heck do you know about rugby?
ShaneA7/7/2009 10:38 AM
Andrew Lang: "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts - for support rather than for illumination." PdV inherited a fantastic crop of players and has a shrewd assistant in Dick Muir. PdV wouldn't even have to pitch up for practise and the Springboks would probably still win.
ralph7/7/2009 10:35 AM
Well said Mr Manuel! I doubt that Peter Bruce has put a foot onto a rugby field in many a year. When one doesnt have any special insight one looks at the results and here our current coach outperforms all of his recent predecessors. Remember there are short and long-term goals in our sport. We have been firing on 2 out of a possible 10 cylinders. When transformation really kicks in and participation in rugby becomes truly representative we will be unbeatable. In the meanwhile De Villiers' mechanic story should have made many of my fellow whites think instead of venting their spleens at a coach who has just won 2 out of three games against the Lions. For those who minimise the achievement let me remind them that Boy Louw was not questioned when he uttered his then famous "looks (sic) at the scoreboard"
John7/7/2009 10:31 AM
Clever Trevor negative growth means recession. I'm sure the retrenched and unemployed will take little consulation knowing we are infact not in a recession beause the numbers say so. But Trev does have a point and so does PDV. We are still winning. The TN will give us a better indication of whether we are making process or going backwards.
real coaches7/7/2009 10:31 AM
Rumour has it ...that Victor Matfireld, John Smit, Fourie du Preez and Jean de Villiers are the actual coaches for the Boks... Matfield/Smit are coaching the forwards, while Fourie/Juan are coaching the backline... ...while PdV is talking nonsense... And to Trevor, ..PdV is NOT coaching the All Blacks...:)
Basie7/7/2009 10:31 AM
AND !!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????????????????? From one specialist to another
Louis7/7/2009 10:30 AM
Trevor is just planning ahead. He knows the Tri-Nations is coming and if he soft-soaps Peter Div now, he would keep on doing stupid things. The ultimate goal is to let his team, The All Blacks, win!
M7/7/2009 10:30 AM
It just shows, we have people who would stop at nothing to see a white man couching springboks again. some of us know it hurts for those whiteys to see a black person in charge of the so called white man;s sport. Wake up and smell the air, PDV is not going anywhere. As for Jake White, by the time he left , springboks were on downward trend already. What hurts most amongst whites is that PDV has won the Tour and many were dying to see him fail. shame on you and please all these whingers must jst support AUSTRALIA OR ENGLAND.
Saato7/7/2009 10:29 AM
I fully agree with you darrco. Its been almost 2 years since JW and the world cup-and lots of those players do not form part of the bok setup any longer. Should we win the 3N, it will be because of JW's boys, Gold and Muir. Should we lose, itll be all Divvy, ricky, ADJ and rest of the so-called quota's fault. Most of you commenting on this site are no different to those ignorant buffoons on keo.co.za who thinks that rugby is a sport that belong to the oh-so superior ones.
LPG7/7/2009 10:27 AM
All you White people playing the race card should grow up. Rugby is a sports for all irrespective of colour. Successful coaches have succesful players in their teams, do not mistake this for WHITE supremacy. Team work goes a long way. When players are ready to die for the team,country and pride, no Brit & Irish Lion will stand in their way.We need to move on as country or all you White Afrikaners should wake up. Blacks were here when you came and you will leave them here. SA is for ALL, so let's stop trying our damned best to own Rugby.
Jono7/7/2009 10:27 AM
Piet is a PUPPET!!! Gary Gold and Dick Muir are the geniuses behind the team! And why do politicians feel the need to get involved? Stay the hell out of it Trev, concentrate on eraducating the corruption and dirty politics in the government! VOTE ME FOR PRESIDENT!!
Gerhard7/7/2009 10:25 AM
The impeccable Trevor, this is indeed very funny. This silly support for PdV is not his most famous little speech. That went something like this : I will not be dictated to by an amorphous entity such as the market.
DRH7/7/2009 10:25 AM
To colin: There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Whether or not PDV is a good coach or not, statistics are not a measure of ability. PDV inherited a WC winning side. Of course his win % will be higher than almost any other coach in history. The question is, would the win % have been even higher with another coach? None of us (except those involved with the team) actually know whether he is a good coach or not, so it is frustrating to hear so many blind comments about his ability. One thing is clear though: he is a terrible spokesman and his team selection / substitutions have been questionable. Let's take him to task on that, but play the ball not the man.
Jono7/7/2009 10:25 AM
Piet is a PUPPET!!! Gary Gold and Dick Muir are the geniuses behind the team! And why do politicians feel the need to get involved? Stay the hell out of it Trev, concentrate on eraducating the corruption and dirty politics in the government! VOTE ME FOR PRESIDENT!!
@DARRCO7/7/2009 10:24 AM
When will you finally move on!! Every blog you go on you write the same soppy story. Move along already. You sounding like some broken record stuck on the same spot over and over. Get a life now for the sake of all the other writers!!
like nooit hey7/7/2009 10:20 AM
All this snor bashing is getting so old now i'm gatvol. It's pathetic to see how many people are waiting to see him fail just to blame the coach. And as someone else here said if they win then it's the players and jake white's coaching which brought the boks through again. You guys need to think about how much you're letting these so-called 'journos' agendas influence your take on things. The only rugby journo's articles i'm enjoying on this site are those by Gary Boshoff. It's staggering to see how much of the SA media are baying for div's blood. Pathetic. Did we actually win the Lions' series?? sure doesn't feel like it... peace
Thembalabantubonke7/7/2009 10:20 AM
@Norman Yes, it is the same Trevor Manuel who for years oversaw a succesful economy and is respected by the world over as thee best Minister of Finace.
Kara7/7/2009 10:19 AM
Helium is an ANC driven appointment - we all know that. His agenda is transformation, why else would players like January, Ralapele, Nokwe, Rose, Jacobs be in the squad above players like Vermaak, Kuun, etc. Viva, comrades, viva!! The opposition will always have the edge, because a Bok team selected purely on merit (including players of colour that are deserving on merit - of which there are many) is a figment of one's imagination
Len van Heerden7/7/2009 10:18 AM
@Darco White does not own any players. do not even entertain these idiots who believe that players representing their country somehow belong to a coach
Michael Bowery7/7/2009 10:18 AM
Dear Trevor, You've been a good Finance Minister, so stick to what you know best. You don't make a book keeper from Octanefontein Finance Minister, and the same applies to the top job in South African Rugby. The principle is the same - top man for the top job. There were many others who would have been a more ideal choice, but we all know why they weren't considered and what's more so do you!
JSC7/7/2009 10:13 AM
If one listen and read all the comments made by Peter de Villiers and his ability as a coach, I am starting to wonder if his appointments was not mad to actually destroy rugby in SA. No wonder he gets support from Manuel.
Kiwi7/7/2009 10:12 AM
Zavos - it is quite clear that you have never touch a rugby ball. Toy are a joke and should be removed from your desk. Have smoked helium as well?
Thembalabantubonke7/7/2009 10:09 AM
@Thabang Roger Federer beat Roddick 5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 3-6 and 16-14. Notice that Roddick broke Federer twice, while Federer only broke Roddick once. Note that Roddick won more games than Federer 39 to 38 and still lost. The overall score does not matter, what matters is that the springbok won 2 tests to 1. Federer won 3 sets to 2. Surely, even you understand such a concept? @Nick Probably, more than you know. @Tommy So, when he is succesful, it is thanks to the white coaches and players and when he fails, these white coaches and players are not at all responsible? It must be wonderful being such a racist? @Mr Jantjies: Sarcasm is not one of your things. Do not try it. PDV is an ordinary coach. Manual never said he was anything better. All he ask is that he be judged on his performance. Why is it that when he fails, he is to blame and when he succeeds, it is because of his players and white coaches? @Mighty Grogg A number of South Africans preferred the All Blacks to the racist springboks at some point in time in the past. I cheered for the Springboks and fell off my sofa when Steyn nailed that 53 metre kick to win the series, but I have not always supported all springbok teams @William I presume Jake White invented rugby, then. That style of rugby was never played before him? It amazes me how small minded many rugby "supporters" can be to claim that Jake White somehow owns a certain style of rugby. Consider that playing styles reflect the skill set available to a coach. While PDV might have preferred a certain style, the players he selected are unlikely to understand such a style without sacrificing winning in the short term. Each coach has the pressure of winning first and foremost and then style is secondary. @Rui Shock horror!!!! How dare PDV use the best 15 players in the country? Yes, he should find 15 players perhaps in Argentina and play them and we can call them Pumas (you twit!!)
mr 187 7/7/2009 10:08 AM
thats right trevor use your powers to getuig de viliers all the way seems like at least the people see that colourd people was part of the apartheid strugle peace and the rest do what they can do about it not much
fraud7/7/2009 10:08 AM
PDV started the last game with the players that his critics have been asking for - and they failed dismally! And now it's his fault? The series was already won, and div needed to try out his fringe players, which included the much hyped about Olivier and Morne Steyn, who were embarassingly useless. JW won the tri nations in his first year and was bullied the rest of the time (remember 49-0?). He only won the world because he was lucky to avoid nz and aus in the tournament. Under JW, we only won because of our defense - we weren't playing rugby, just defending and hoping for a penalty. Once again, let the numbers do the talking, and not your preconceived ideas about black people's (players and coaches) abilities in rugby. Unfortunately for you, div will win the tri nations and his contract will be extended until the world cup. He's here to stay.
fraud7/7/2009 10:07 AM
PDV started the last game with the players that his critics have been asking for - and they failed dismally! And now it's his fault? The series was already won, and div needed to try out his fringe players, which included the much hyped about Olivier and Morne Steyn, who were embarassingly useless. JW won the tri nations in his first year and was bullied the rest of the time (remember 49-0?). He only won the world because he was lucky to avoid nz and aus in the tournament. Under JW, we only won because of our defense - we weren't playing rugby, just defending and hoping for a penalty. Once again, let the numbers do the talking, and not your preconceived ideas about black people's (players and coaches) abilities in rugby. Unfortunately for you, div will win the tri nations and his contract will be extended until the world cup. He's here to stay.
Kiwi7/7/2009 10:07 AM
Lucille Oliver - why do you always play the colour game. From kiwiland, all the sportswriters are of the view that Pdiv is the laughing stock of the international rugby fraternity. Read the international sport newspapers. Stats has unfortunately NOTHING to do with as PDiv has inherited a winning world cup side. Look at the players he included in the squad that cannot even make their Super 14 team. Bring back Jake White or Nick Mallet who KNOWS rugby.
Gerald7/7/2009 10:07 AM
Maybe TM doesn't like his new position as Minister of Planning (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) so he is now tendering for the position of Minister of Sport
Darrco7/7/2009 10:04 AM
Peter De Villiers has NOT taken the entire Jake White squad. He has very cleverly retained the core of that squad and then very cleverly added his own players. Plenty of key players from the White era like Butch James, Os Du Randt, CJ V/D Linde, Percy Montgomery, Bobby Skinstadt, Gary Botha, Wikus van Heerden, and many more are NOT part of the PDV squad. People should STOP thinking that PDV is simply using White's "players". The whites in this country are a bunch of jealous moaners and they will NEVER change. They are so used to getting everything on a platter. They cannot understand that there are other people in this country too. They should stop believing that they are the superior race. They should also remember that in the past, when they've had ALL the privileges, and we had NONE, we got detained when speaking out against their ungodly racist actions. For those whites who keep saying that "This is Africa", and we will never come right....to them I would like to say the following: What are you still doing here in our "Africa". Why don’t you move to "Australia" or to wherever. Go! We will build a much better South Africa as well as Africa without you. GO!
Blou7/7/2009 10:02 AM
ag komaan, div is no worse than jake, a coach is supposed to be a poepol. and forget about race, this is about rugby. p.s jake het nog nooit enige kalwers gehad nie!
Abie7/7/2009 9:59 AM
Come on tri-nations. Come on All Blacks. Come on Ausies (with your all blacks coach). The proof will be in the pudding.
norman7/7/2009 9:58 AM
Is this the same 'Clevor Trevor' who informed South Africans on national television that we were not in a recession-what a financial genious!
norman7/7/2009 9:57 AM
Is this the same 'Clevor Trevor' who informed South Africans on national television that we were not in a recession-what a financial genious!
Mr Jantjies7/7/2009 9:57 AM
Hey @ Robson, jy maak my kwaad...are you a soccer player!!! cos you have no idea about rugby...me and Pieter go back to the old days...where we shared a beer....
Quinton7/7/2009 9:57 AM
Great one Mr.Manual - you are just confirming my one true believe - SA media is run by a bunch of rassist that sit around a braai on a saturday evening and have rassist talk of the whites being the superior race and no one is good enough unless their white.They then skillfully write their believes in their papers with rassist undertones without even considering facts.I think it is high time we as a south african society start standing together and expose these rassist, erespective their colour because all they do is sow division in our beautifull country.
Barry7/7/2009 9:56 AM
Haha of course he (Trevor) is going to support PDV, Trevor is a well known supporter of the All Blacks (Trevor's only real downfall - Excellent Finance Minister) Well done Trevor, you are really making sure that the Boks do not win the TriNations. Who is a clever All Black supporter?
johan7/7/2009 9:56 AM
Trevor you should have stuck to finance minister. Fact is that PETER'S arogance is what cost them the third test. The stats will show that the previous coaches could not make it, but look at the players that were available in those days, they were not Jake's world cup side. Whether Peter is a good coach i dont know, but he has a k@k atitude and puls the race card very often.I will not suport the bok's in any match as long as that racist is involved in any way.
WilladieLeeu7/7/2009 9:43 AM
Strange that Mr Manual didn't send a letter to SARU after the debacle with Jake. He did, after all, win us the World Cup.
Lucille Oliver 7/7/2009 9:41 AM
Unfortunately the White South Africans are just standing by waiting for P de Villiers to fail. When the boks loose they point a finger at the coach like they doing now. When the boks win it is not the coach but the players winning. Come on South Africa catch a wake up. Let the results speak for themselves. Lets take the winning of the series and be proud of the result not criticise the coach.
Thabang7/7/2009 9:41 AM
Trev... careful, your remarks may discredit you in the same way as PDiv's remarks on eye gouging and ballet dancers discredit him. You're starting to sound like a results, despite the cost. Well, we may have won the series, but the loss of Saturday resulted in the B&I Lions claiming a hoger overall score, more tries; and the Lions consdered to have beenthe better team. That is not what I say, that is what the international opinion is...BUT WAIT... Trevor...are you not the guy who actually supports the All Blacks, or at least did so until recently??!! Rich comments, coming from you ol' chap... Minister of Planning or not.
Norms7/7/2009 9:40 AM
...to add to Tommy...and surfing in the wake of Jake White's success, with players cultivated and coached by Jake...
JapieDownUnder7/7/2009 9:39 AM
Helium ploeg met Jake White se kalwers............
Ben7/7/2009 9:39 AM
Trevor u too can talk nonsense when u wish to do so. PdV inherited a fully trained squad from 2007, so the results of the first 2 Tests are no surprise. Then PdV played his own hand in the third and failed dismally. 28 -9 is a disaster to our image and record and u don't use Test matches as rugby trials
Robson Mandu7/7/2009 9:37 AM
Mr. Jantjies, you obviously have a brain the size of a peanut. Your comments are always ridiculous. PDiv will never be a legend like tiger woods. He is already the laughing stock of every person who knows anything about rugby. He hasn't a clue what he is doing, and you obviously don't either.
Paul the destroyer7/7/2009 9:37 AM
Tommy, I assume that Jack White as also excellent because he had a BEE and non BEE coaches. That the numbers speak for themselves. The struggle continue ……..
blou krokodil7/7/2009 9:37 AM
If I'm not mistaken, then both of the above mentioned would've played springbok scrumhalf had it not been for apartheid. Maybe the would've even played against each other!!
Ntuthu7/7/2009 9:37 AM
But Mr Minister as you rightly point out that Bruce is not a sports writer you also are not one,you are an engineering graduate turned finance man now a sports analyst. I guess it's a question of one coloured man standing up for his bru,hehehe
Rui7/7/2009 9:35 AM
actually, he is using the same team jake white used, why not get new players and see what he can do then then ill give comment on whether he is good or not
Hateres!7/7/2009 9:33 AM
Tommy - then by your thinking Jake White was only successful is because he had an excellent BEE assistant coach? Stop being an idiot!!! As the man says - let the stats speak for themselves!
CJ Smith7/7/2009 9:31 AM
Of course he will back him. He is an ANC man and Helium is an ANC appointment...
Norms7/7/2009 9:31 AM
...to add to Tommy...and surfing in the wake of Jake White's success, with players cultivated and coached by Jake...
Dhiren 7/7/2009 9:31 AM
Firstly let me say that Tommy, you're an idiot! The fact that the support team is excellent has nothing to do with the colour of their skin, nor does it have to do with their BEE status Secondly as much as I can accept that the numbers do speak for themselves, the question I have to ask is this: How much of PDIV's success can be attributed to him inheriting a world champion side from Jake White?
Jules7/7/2009 9:30 AM
Trevor supports Div because Trevor supports the All Blacks
william7/7/2009 9:29 AM
PDV is a muppet. The senior players in the team are running the show....why don't we see any of PDV expansive rugby anymore...why are they actually playing Jake White style...cause PDV does not know where on this planet is is as far as rugby is concerned. If John Smit,Victor,Bakkies,Juan stop playing now...we will loose 20 in a row. YES mr manual PDV wil vote for you again because you pay him his salary.
Nick7/7/2009 9:29 AM
what does Manuel know about rugby?
Marcel7/7/2009 9:29 AM
As much as I respect Mr Manuel for his economic savy, he must rather please not publicly show his opinions regarding RUGBY!! Another typical example of politics in SA Rugby .. so very unnecessary!!
Mighty Grogg7/7/2009 9:27 AM
Is this the same Trevor Manual who made it so clear to all that he supports the All Blacks?
colin7/7/2009 9:25 AM
Mr. Manual should not expect the Editor of the Business Day to put the comparative stats comparing DIV to other coaches as this is not what his readership wants to see in his paper instead the Editors in our Media opt to report on a single-minded and one-sided point of view as this do sell Newspapers not the facts or the truth.
monk7/7/2009 9:24 AM
" unexpected yet impeccable source " - hilarious! Trevor Manuel - impeccable ... now that's funny.
Anon7/7/2009 9:22 AM
But of course!!! Peter made an effort to let everyone know who he was going to vote for in April elections. Do people think Peter did that for no reason?
Mr Jantjies7/7/2009 9:20 AM
PDIV is my man...you see even Manual says he's the best thing since sliced bread....PDIV has done what other couldn't...he's already a legend like Tiger Woods!!!! And Trevor agrees with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tommy7/7/2009 9:19 AM
Trev, the only reason why Div has been successful is due to the fact that he has 2 excellent non BEE coaches!
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